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Toyota Introduces Production “Clean Power” Diesels
1 February 2005
Toyota is unveiling the first production version of its Clean Power concept shown last year (earlier post) in the form of a 2.2-liter diesel engine for the Avensis.
To be introduced at the upcoming Geneva Motor Show in March, the 2.2-liter Clean Power engine offers 130 kW (175 hp) of power and 400 Nm (295 lb-ft) of torque, while producing levels of NOx and PM emissions that are respectively around 50% and 80% below Euro-4 standards. (See chart to right. The D-4D 180 Clean Power refers to the concept car noted above.)
The Clean Power engine uses a new, high-pressure piezoelectric common-rail injection system.
The principle of piezoelectricity describes the capacity of certain materials to deform upon the application of an electrical current and to return to their original state when the current is removed. In a piezoelectric fuel injection system, each injector is composed of a stack of piezoelectric ceramic elements. When an electric current is applied to the stack, the elements expand almost instantaneously, allowing the fuel coming from the common-rail into the cylinder.
This technique allows larger volumes of fuel to be injected in a shorter time than would be possible with solenoid injectors. It also results in greater fuel atomization to enable more efficient combustion across the range of the engine.
The Clean Power engine also uses Toyota’s D-CAT (Diesel Clean Advanced Technology) package as standard. The D-CAT emissions technology is already available in the Avensis model.
D-CAT consists of a number of elements, but at its heart is the DPNR (Diesel Particulate NOx Reduction system) 4-way catalyst that reduces NOx and PM simultaneously. (Schematic illustration of D-CAT components to the right.)
The DPNR catalyst relies on the engine management system to vary the air-fuel ratio in the exhaust gasses.
To achieve this, a fifth injector, known as Exhaust Port Injector (EPI), has been added and placed in the exhaust port. At the critical moment, fuel is injected into the exhaust gas flow in order to create stoichiometric conditions in the DPNR catalyst. This ‘rich spike’ allows the DPNR catalyst to reduce NOx and PM.
The EPI also performs the sulfur discharge control. When the sulfur accumulated in DPNR catalyst reaches a certain level, the EPI will increase the catalyst’s bed temperature in order to release the sulfur.
Toyota D-CAT also adopts a high-efficiency EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) cooler to increase the density of the exhaust gasses being recirculated into the combustion chamber by reducing their temperature.
Along with the 2.2-liter Clean Power engine, Toyota is introducing another 2.2-liter engine in the mid-power range, offering 110 kW (148 hp) of power and 310 Nm (229 lb-ft) of torque.
Fuel consumption figures are not yet available. However, the current production Avensis using a 2.0-liter diesel with D-CAT consumes 5.8 liters per 100 km (combined), or 40.5 mpg (US), with CO2 emissions of 155 g/km.
At the introduction of the Clean Power concept last year, Toyota also indicated that it would extend the engine range down to 1.9 liters, 2.2 liters being the current top-end.
It will be interesting to see Toyota’s approach to the North American market with these Clean Power diesels. I haven’t seen any statements regarding their potential introduction here. I assume that Toyota will monitor the acceptance of diesels in the NA market and decide accordingly.
February 1, 2005 in Diesel | Permalink | Comments (96) | TrackBack (0)
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Comments
Very interesting. I pray the Toyota gods that this will make it to NA.
Thanks for the very informative entry, Mike.
Posted by: Mikhail Capone | Feb 1, 2005 1:53:20 PM
Cool chart of NOx and PM for Euro IV. Thanks. Any chance of plotting SULEV as well? :)
John
Posted by: John Norris | Feb 1, 2005 3:27:01 PM
A recent article in Der Spiegel noted that the German Automobile Manufacturers Association (VDA) is disputing the claim of the D-Cat system. Der Spiegel, quoting an article from Automobilwoche, states that BMW, Mercedes, VW , and Audi are going after Toyota. According to the article, the VDA members have discovered that the D-Cat system begins to lose its effectiveness after 5000-8000 km, or about 3100-5000 miles.
Toyota counters that it is an isolated incident; when the system was introduced in 2003, a fleet of 60 cars drove over an extended period without trouble. Some of the cars had more than 300,000 km or roughly 186,000 miles without any signs of trouble.
It should be interesting to see who's right. My money's on Toyota...
Posted by: Claiborne Booker | Feb 1, 2005 4:46:38 PM
And the Toyota juggernaut rolls on, engineering and conquering. I'm glad at least one car company sees opportunity in change.
Posted by: Tom DC/VA | Feb 1, 2005 5:46:32 PM
Good idea on the SULEV chart...I’ll work on that.
Re: the VDA claim...hadn’t heard that! Thanks for the pointer.
Posted by: Mike | Feb 1, 2005 6:44:53 PM
how about a chart to show the difference between honda diesel and toyota diesel.
Posted by: anon | Feb 1, 2005 11:55:42 PM
If you will examine the websites of Toyota gas-to-diesel conversions (and bio-diesel websites), you will see that there is a *very* healthy demand for hi-mpg Toyota diesel engines. Indeed, people are paying big bucks to convert their vehicles. What I don't understand is why Toyota offers hi-mpg diesels everywhere in the world except North America.
Do they think we like paying twice the fuel cost to move our cars and trucks around??
Posted by: Anonymous | Feb 16, 2005 7:40:11 PM
Perhaps the relatively high limit for sulfur in US Diesel fuel is a problem? If so we can hope to see new technologies available here aftet June 2006 when a much lower limit goes into effect.
Posted by: richard schumacher | Mar 1, 2005 1:44:33 PM
Does anyone know when a Toyota diesel Pickup truck will be introduced in the U.S.? I am so anxious for the U.S. mindset to change from, "Bigger is better". Some of us are not that naive. We want fuel efficient diesels with more torque and high mpg. ratings. The east continues to get the lastest technologies and we (U.S.) continued to stand by and wait....... I want to see the "Smart" in the U.S. as well. How about the Audi A-2?? Sixty to 80 MPG will be nice.
Posted by: Jeff | Mar 30, 2005 8:31:13 AM
I too have been wanting a full size, fuel efficient pickup. I currently have a 62, 3/4 ton Chevy but the 235ci engine in that thing is weak and inefficient. All of the US diesel trucks are HUGE. I need a medium duty, PU, with a small diesel, engine. Hopefully the Japanese will start importing them soon. When they do it will be sayonara for the US auto industry. LOL!!!
Posted by: tab | Jun 11, 2005 9:54:40 AM
Just returned from two weeks in Italy, driving a Renault Espace carrying six people on winding country roads. Also visited Rome and Florence. I loved the six-speed diesel (I used to drive big American over-the-road rigs and so am predisposed to diesel power and multi-speed transmissions). I add my voice to the rising chorus, wondering "when, oh when?" will we see the real advanced diesel cars here in the US? Come on, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc. We are waiting impatiently for you to start selling us what we need!
Posted by: Jonathan Cartford | Jul 5, 2005 7:00:05 AM
According to information based mostly on official websites. This is the rough picture:
Toyota 2.2 D-4D (Avensis)
Power : 177 bhp@3600rpm
Torque : 400 nm@2000-2600rpm
Commonrail pressure : 1800 bar*
compression ratio : 15.8:1
fuel economy : 6.1L/100km
Honda 2.2 i-CTDi (Accord)
Power : 140 bhp@4000rpm
Torque : 340 nm@2000rpm
Commonrail pressure : 1600 bar
compression ratio : 16.7:1
fuel economy : 5.4L/100km
*higher pressure better atomisation = better efficiency
Posted by: SaveDeForest | Aug 1, 2005 11:20:03 PM
I am hoping that Toyota will give us a Diesel engine option for the new Tacoma, perhaps for 2006/2007. I would love a powerful fuel efficient mid-size pickup, plus I'm a huge Tacoma fan. In fact if they were to offer us a diesel option for the Tacoma, I would promptly place several non-vital organs on the market to fund a purchase!!
Posted by: Michael | Aug 2, 2005 9:33:06 PM
TOYOTA! If you bring in a Corolla Diesel, I will BUY IT.
Bring it on! A Toyota Diesel would be awesome.
Posted by: Me | Aug 3, 2005 3:59:35 PM
Is Tacoma means Hilux? I love Hilux D4D version, I am hoping Toyota to give us Hilux with the new D4D too.
Posted by: SaveDeForest | Aug 7, 2005 8:24:04 PM
I can't understand why no auto company hasn't started selling clean burning diesels. Who wouldn't want a 4x4 tacoma that got 30 miles per gallon. Somebody please, market a diesel pickup(small or midsize, not the giants that american car companies offer) for the U.S. I had an Isuzu diesel in the early eighties that got 37-40 mpg Where did they go?
Posted by: Ed Baker | Aug 8, 2005 5:27:56 PM
Whoever delivers it first to Canada, Dodge/Jeep with its mercedes common rail or Toyota. Either one I'll say good ridance to my gas guzzling Chev. I just don't need or want a full size diesel truck.
Posted by: Scott | Aug 16, 2005 7:13:01 AM
None of the Japanese auto makers have figured it out yet. During the 1970s, when fuel prices skyrocketed, Japan introduced small, fuel-efficient cars and trucks to the U.S. and left the American auto makers playing catch-up.
Fuel is skyrocketing again with no signs of coming down. Americans are screaming for light/medium sized cars and trucks, and nobody is listening. After spending five years asking my Toyota dealer when they'd offer a diesel Taco, I gave up and bought an 81 LUV diesel. I had been driving a 74 FJ40, and was thoroughly loyal to Toyota because of their quality, but I'm not going to wait forever for them to pull their heads out. I'm going to spend $20-30k on a pickup, I'm not going to settle for their "You can have it any color you want as long as it's red." standard option mentality.
Posted by: Scott | Aug 31, 2005 5:48:46 AM
Very strange to find no Tacoma Diesel pickups on the world market, equipped with one of Toyotas excellent Diesel engines.Can it be that marketing at Toyota is a little bit behind the times...?
Posted by: Arne | Sep 5, 2005 3:19:41 PM
I have driven Toyota trucks since I started driving. I love the quality of these trucks. However, if I don't see diesels here in the US soon, my buisness will be done elsewhere. I find it hard to believe that they don't have the tech to put a more fuel efficient truck in the US. I'de really like to have a Toyota truck I could run bio diesel through.
Posted by: Greg | Sep 23, 2005 3:54:03 AM
Just for the record...somewhere around the year 1986...
I worked for a company based in south Phila...This company had a fleet of small Toyota trucks. These were
typical of today's tiny pickup trucks. Most were gasoline..but 2 were 4 cylinder diesels..I drove both of them. They were the best engines I had ever had the privilege to run. Started faster than any of the gas ones...in any weather, hot or cold. Never needed to use the glow plugs! One of the trucks had almost half a million miles on it with the original engine before It was assigned to me. I left the company in 1991 and have never seen Toyota diesel trucks since.....Last I remember..those fantastic diesels got around 70 some MPG..or damn close with a fifth gear manual tranny...I REMEMBER FILLING IT UP WITH 10 GALLONS OF DIESEL...AND DRIVING IT ALL WEEK..I AVERAGED 1,100 MILES A WEEK ON MY SERVICE ROUTE.
Posted by: George | Sep 26, 2005 7:32:18 PM
I have a1982 toyota long bed with 208k+ miles I bought it with 93k on it.
After a7 year hiatus I started driving it again.It smokes a little when when first started but Ive been told that its old enough to smoke.Besides changing oil every 3k and lube is there anythin else that I should do? Also does anyone have any idea about value.
Posted by: milo hill | Sep 27, 2005 7:01:49 PM
I'll add my vote! I drove a '99 Dodge Cummins & 5-speed manual for a couple of years, towing a 4-horse with living quarters. Fabulous engine. Don't want or need that much truck, but would buy a Tacoma with a small diesel in a heartbeat. Love diesels, Toyos and manual trans.
Posted by: Glen | Sep 29, 2005 5:37:48 PM
I have a 1985 Toyota Landcruiser...5 Speed Diesel. This unit will not stop...I have 402,000 KM and is still in very good condition.I have regular Garage visits and see my favourite Body shop every 2 years. I get about 23 to 25 MPG (Canadian) I wish Toyota would bring in Diesel Landcruisers to Canada. They would sell as many as they could produced if priced below $55,000 Canadian.Most of us would probably not need the leather etc.
Posted by: Bill Jackson | Oct 10, 2005 10:20:03 PM
Toyota diesel in the States is the way to go. Emissions appears to limit potential introduction in the States, but these models flourish only a scant 75 miles east of Florida in the Bahamas (vans, trucks, cars, etc.) As previously mentioned, Toyota, Nissan & Hyundai (sp.) are making nice 7 passenger vans (called buses by the masses) and selling them to smaller countries outside the US non-stop. Bigger is not better in my estimation. Bring on the 1.9 and 2.2 liter diesels in a Tacoma or Frontier. The acceleration my be light, but the towing and hauling capacity (torque) would more than outweigh the potential inability to go from "zero to 60 in 6 5.9 seconds." Who needs this in a truck anyway? Finally, one would see why small diesels may not be welcome in stricter emission standard states, but what about the states that have no emission standards or required certifications (Florida)? I am most certainly with you folks. If one was not so expensive to import from Central or South America, that would be the way to go. American really needs to get its head out of the sand. Unfortunately, the politicians will more than likely recommend support of offshore coastal drilling so they can continue to drive their jumbo SUVs rather than consider a more sensible alternative. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
Regards.
Posted by: Capt. Matt | Oct 21, 2005 9:16:56 PM
I wrote in March of this year and I will repeat myself. PLEASE MARKET A TOYOTA PICKUP WITH DIESEL. I own three gas jobs now, and really want to get in the 30's mpg on a 4x4 Tacoma. The U.S. in great need for this. I live in Maine. This State is very unfriendly towards diesels. The new common rail diesel will be just fine for me. I will travel to another state or Canada to purchase one........
Posted by: Jeff Parshall | Nov 9, 2005 4:45:16 PM
I have seen 4 doors, 4x4 toyota diesel pick-up trucks in Belize as far back as the year 1999. I would buy a diesel tacoma in a flash. Stop making it bigger and bigger, small was perfect.
Posted by: S. Klein | Nov 22, 2005 6:08:57 PM
Just thought I'd mention. I found an 85 corolla 4 door lift back. It needed an alternater, starter and some tires. I put on the starter and was blown away to have it start up as soon as the key was turned. The lady I bought this from swears it gets 50 plus mpg on the highway and 40 something in the city. I've only had it running for a week, but it runs strong with 100,000 miles on it. Body is cherry, interior looks new and 40 plus mpg... toyota did it right on this little 5 speed car way back in the 80's. Twenty years later and running strong. Not bragging, just hoping this makes it to some executives ear... I like the Prius and my little corolla is impressive so far. Let's see a truck with a mini deisel over electric??? or a something such.
Posted by: C.Ellis | Nov 24, 2005 5:31:02 PM
Oh, sorry about that... forgot to mention that my little 85 corolla is a deisel.
Posted by: C.Ellis | Nov 24, 2005 5:33:23 PM
I emailed Toyota inquiring about a future diesel truck model, here is their response, usless......
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We appreciate your interest in Toyota.
At this time a diesel truck is not manufactured for the U.S. market. As such, information regarding this model is not available on our website.
We are committed to manufacturing high quality vehicles that exemplify innovative design, styling, dependability and durability. In an effort to maintain the quality that is evident in our previous model vehicles, we continue to pay close attention to detail in our future models.
We thank you for your enthusiasm and hope that you will continue to consider Toyota for your driving needs.
If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us.
Toyota Customer Experience
Posted by: Kerry Wood | Dec 1, 2005 6:56:13 AM
I want a diesel truck which will burn bio-diesel and give me over 50 miles per gallon....keep up the good work
I am now buying your stock...your far sightedness puts the American auto makers to shame.
Posted by: pauline v. williams | Dec 2, 2005 9:21:51 AM
It continues to amaze me how completely backward we are in the US when it comes to sensible marketing of automobiles. We can have all kinds of flavors of I-pods, cell phones, TV sets, any sort of electronic gadget imaginable plus many I'd never have imagined. We even now have two-stroke outboard motors which run nearly as clean as a car. But regardless of where it comes from, there are almost no examples of anyone offering anything other than a conventional gasoline engine. Only the RX-8 Mazda is different here in California, so far as I know (other than big diesel pickups). This state of course has been exceptionally narrow minded in its quest for cleaner air which doesn't help either. But it really seems like the automakers just don't get it. There is a vast market waiting to be tapped. Don't they see how many Dodge, Ford, & GM diesels are being sold at ridiculously inflated prices in the "gross overkill" category? This is an overgeneralization, I know, but more often than not true, anyway. One guy commuting on the highway with no trailer & no cargo- seems like a big dually is more vehicle than necessary to me. But I'm not in favor of regulating that, just providing more options- like a Tacoma or Ranger diesel. Come on Detroit, come on Japan, wake up!
Posted by: Stu | Dec 5, 2005 2:42:39 PM
So nice to see so many other people asking for a Toyota Diesel truck to North America. I bought a new 4x4 diesel Pick up from Toyota in 1985 and had it until 2000. For the last 6 yrs I owned my truck I was chased and stopped by people asking me where I bought the vehicle and where they could get one.Why? because it was a diesel. And a visit to a Toyota dealer says: "Oh theres' no demand" Uhhuh rite...
It was the best automobile I have ever owned. Expecting to buy a new one in about 1990, I waited, and waited .. and STILL waiting for Toyota to wake up to this increasing demand for a compact diesel truck. Whichever manufacturer builds a compact diesel pickup is going to make a killing on sales... for now my Passat TDI is having to suffice , but its just not the same.....comon Toyota.. wake up!
Posted by: Blair442 | Dec 5, 2005 7:52:32 PM
I am not alone!
I've been patiently waiting for a small diesel PU truck (manual tranny, please) for YEARS, and now I see that I am not the only one... bless you all. Keep posting and pestering Toyota, and maybe our prayers will be answered. Toyota is the best run auto maker in the world, and they are certainly our best hope for a smaller diesel PU truck.
Detroit is a lost cause, imo. We want 35 mph, manual trans., and the ability to manuver in the real world... Detroit gives us 15mph, auto trans., and a land yacht that requires GPS to back into a parking spot...
Posted by: Mike P. | Dec 20, 2005 2:27:35 PM
Well, here I am over in Kuwait, supporting the fight of the global WAR on Terrorism for the Bush Administration, and driving, you guessed in 2004 HD diesel Tacoma type crew cab pickup. Love the Truck, plenty of low end and gets incredible mileage. Perfect for my needs back home. Get on thier web site to buy one and no diesel. In addition since I have been here it looks as though toyota, increased the size of the Tacoma, and now it gets even worse mileage. WAKE UP TOYOTA, If you have to have the TACOMA be mid size offer a Small pickup with this fabulous power plant.
M.
Posted by: Michael H. | Dec 25, 2005 10:47:40 AM
I'd have no problem paying a few thousand more for a Tacoma that can burn diesel/biodiesel. Wake up Toyota, please! Before I have to go buy a Chevy!!!
Posted by: Matt | Dec 29, 2005 12:43:10 PM
I currently have a 1985 Toyota pickup and am going to convert it to biodiesel. Sometimes you just can't wait for the big corporations to be smart. Make your own vehicles!!
Posted by: Ashean | Jan 4, 2006 6:21:33 PM
Mentioned earlier, Hilux is toyota's version of their tacoma. check out the uk or australia website for info on the hilux diesel:
www.toyota.co.uk
Posted by: DJohn | Jan 12, 2006 3:54:17 PM
Glad to see so many are asking the same questions I've had for so long. I watched Amer. trucks make a vast improvement when they turboed their diesels, then, when they were getting it right, they neglected a major portion of their market. More power is what they sought, and more power is great if that is what you want or need. But, what about those of us who don't need such an unsightly amount of h.p. or torque, we just want sufficient power and that good ole fuel economy. Can't they offer a truck for each of us? Since manufacturers offer different sizes of gas engines can't they give us a choice of two diesels? One with big power and the other with great economy? Am I asking too much? Even the little jeep liberty, which is avail. in diesel, gets horrible economy for such a little car. How much longer do we have to wait? Maybe I'll just have to give up toyota and all the rest to come up with some bright ideas. Maybe I'll just have to keep on driving diesels with oversized power plants.
Posted by: L Payne | Jan 26, 2006 10:20:50 PM
Well,
I see I'm not the first to hope for a compact diesel pickup. Has anyone looked into importing them? I wonder what the taxes/cost, etc. would be to bring a truckload into the states. I think we should just band together and order a trailer of small diesel trucks. Make it a media event so Toyota has to pay attention and wake up that there is a HUGE demand. We would probably have people begging us to sell them to them. Anyone have any import experience? Know a car dealer who would be willing to order some trucks?
AG
Posted by: AG | Feb 7, 2006 6:10:32 AM
Toyota,
After years of owning V8 gas guzzlers, our family is ready to move to diesel. We would give anything to have a Tacoma Diesel. We'll buy in Canada if it becomes available there.
I'm just as astounded as everyone else here in regards to the auto industry's ignorance. Do you all not see the increased buzz about biodiesel, and diesel fuels in general? Remember how you all tried to offer us diesels in the late '70s-mid '80s, and we balked? Well, the public is ready to move to diesel now. In fact, as you can see, we actually WANT it now. So where is the option?
Posted by: Jeff | Feb 12, 2006 1:33:12 AM
It is said that because of our strict emissions requirements, diesels can not be brought to the states. Diesels do not put out harmful emissions. When was the last time you smogged a diesel. NOT even in the green state of California do you smog a diesel, though, I am of the understanding they are working on this. Remember, our diesel grades are ultra poor with too much sulfer in them. Also, the big oil companies do not want us getting better fuel mileage. We are the last country in WORLD that is extremely dependent upon gasoline. Brazil, as you know, uses fuel made from corn. The oil companies are keeping these great little diesels from us.
Posted by: William | Feb 20, 2006 1:46:32 PM
I heard they were building a Toyota (mile long) plant in the States. They are allegedly producing a diesel engine for production. This info came from a Dealership in Auburn Maine. I haven't confirmed this info. Please tell me it's true?
Still waiting for TACOMA Hilux in the U.S........
Posted by: Jeffrey Parshall | Apr 17, 2006 5:19:15 PM
I'm not sure what kind of legal BS you guys have down in the US regarding importing diesels, but somebody could do a lot of people a huge favor if they found out how to import Hilux's (tacoma equivilant), and landcruiser vehicles into the US. There is a company up here in canada called outback imports, check their website out. Seems they import these trucks from Japan. In Japan they don't have corrosion problems and redneck offroad drivers like me, so these trucks are in great shape dispite their age. If there is a will, there's a way.
Posted by: Andrew | May 14, 2006 3:31:45 PM
I love small to mid sized trucks. 2 years ago I traded in my 2000 Nissan Frontier(@25MPG) for a 2004 VW Golf TDI(@40MPG). I miss driving a truck. If toyota released a truck with a diesel engine tomorrow I would take on the negative equity to own one.
Posted by: Chad | May 15, 2006 7:24:33 AM
I had a 1998 Tacoma and loved the vehicle except I decided to move to a Diesel Dodge 3500. I love the Dodge yet it is very expensive to drive so last year I bought a 2000 VW Jetta TDI which I love and it gets 40 mpg.I run biodiesel in both of my vehicles. Though this vehicle is now my primary vehicle living in snow country makes it a disadvantage to drive in winter. If Toyota would import their deisel truck to the US I would by one. I remember I was in Costa Rica in 1993 and saw 4 door diesel Hilux. I do not understand why the US does not import small diesel trucks.
Posted by: Jonathan Paul | May 18, 2006 10:13:29 AM
It seems that there might be other factors at play with regards to this issue. I read that the oil industry is the largest in the world. Today the verdict was released on energy executives ken lay and shilling, and they may spend time in jail. This proves that the oil industry is anything but honest. I too am longing for a diesel powered Toyota pickup and it feels like we are being ripped off by greedy forces that are too great for any one person to handle. i send this message as a plea to anyone with ideas, money, or influence to help bring the subject of diesel power to the media. i would be good for people to know about the new quiet, clean, effecient technology. and also about the mass production of biodiesel from blue green algea.
Posted by: Greg Garcia | May 25, 2006 3:54:46 PM
I drove this toyota DieselIn Germany one the Autobahn. IT is very nice and very quick. But will we ever see it here. American auto indrustry and oil indrustry who now. America is not as free as Americans think it is.
danncas Pa. USA
Posted by: danncas | Jun 3, 2006 5:02:49 PM
I can certainly sympathise with all the posts above - However, being an avid Toyo fan I feel you're all being a little hard on the them. It's not the automakers fault that you don't get small manual tranny diesels in the US, but rather the fuel producers. The new ultra clean high-spec diesel motors being produced by various motor manufacturers all require ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel) fuel - 15ppm or better. The (much cheaper to produce) low grade diesel - (300ppm or worse - used by large motor coaches & industrial equipment) will cause these new diesel motors to self destruct. SO until you can readily get a high grade diesel fuel, it's unfortunately very unlikely that any manufacturer will import these fantastic small diesel powered vehicles.
We've had exactly the same problem in our country until 3rdQ2005 when the new clean diesel fuel was made available at all gas stations. Now, these small diesels are flying off the showroom floors before they gather even a spec of dust.
Durban, South Africa
Posted by: Barry | Jun 6, 2006 1:46:30 PM
I concure with the above. As soon as we get the new ULSD here in the States, there will be more offerings I believe.
Anyone keeping tabs on that monster of a Cummins now at 6.7L? :)
I too own a 2001 VW Golf TDI...great engine, even with an auto trans, got 44mpg regularly in mixed traffic/freeway use. But remember, the VW 1.9 TDI is 70s technology! We need the ULSD to get the new improved engine equipment here. Even Honda has a PZEV Diesel engine waiting in the wings that was told to get around 60mpg highway in a civic, and mid 50s in an Accord.
One big issue I hope gets straightened out however, is for the family with 3 kids...who is going to produce the first SUV that runs on the new fuel? Ford dropped the Excursion...I've heard rumors of Dodge building an SUV on the Mega Cab Ram platform (HUGE!), and I've heard Chevy is toying with putting a Diesel engine back in the Suburban!
Oh if I only had $50,000 and a pen that worked...
Posted by: Sam Margulis | Jun 8, 2006 8:04:57 PM
Toyota is producing a diesel pickup for 08 model year.... it is supposed to be powered by caterpillar. I cant wait for more info
Posted by: John | Jun 22, 2006 12:41:04 PM
The comment about an 08 diesel. Is this confirmed? Do you have a website or document?
My family and friends that have Toyotas have all raved about their Toyotas. I had a friend of the family that had an old diesel Land Cruiser. When I went back for a reunion he told me he finally got rid of it seems the body fell apart, not the engine it got sold to someone who was fixing up an old Land Cruiser.
I had an older 87 Toyota PU that I really enjoyed for the short time I owned it. I do enjoy driving a PU(99 Ford Ranger currently) but have no need for the full sized beasts. When I was in Saudi I had the privilege of driving a diesel Land Cruiser and enjoyed the heck out of it.
My cousin in Germany recently did purchase a diesel Tacoma and loves it. Best of both worlds for him.
Now I am again getting into the market for a new truck (savings started) and am looking again at alternatives to the gas guzzling engine. Yet still no small diesel engines. Will this dilemma ever be resolved in the US?
Posted by: MrSkinnMan | Jul 13, 2006 8:40:31 AM
I owned a 1981 diesel toyota pickup truck. The truck body and cab rusted away but the engine kept going,the transmission was the only repair. Replaced the Trans at about 175,000 miles
Posted by: joe | Jul 13, 2006 5:30:30 PM
Nice that someone is on this. America has no energy crisis, they have an auto crisis.
I don't buy the ULSD (low sulfur) argument. Do you really think they use that in Belize, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Australia, and China?
There is something wrong with the USA.
If anyone has had luck importing a new Hilux, Fortuner, Corolla, etc...please email me at barw4@yahoo.com
.02
Posted by: Nate D | Jul 15, 2006 1:55:23 PM
As hard as it may be to believe, the requirement for "clean" (Low Sulphur) Diesel is a very big reason preventing auto makers from bringing modern high performance diesel powered light vehicles to certain markets.
Here are some other thoughts to ponder - In Europe, fuel is VERY expensive (Currently about $1.625 per liter = $6.15 per US Gallon). It did not take long for Europeans to see the benefit of running diesels - on average 35% savings at the pump. Also, insurance premiums are cheaper for diesel powered cars.
With such a large demand for diesel powered vehicles (57% of all new car and light trucks purchased in Europe are diesel powered), auto-makers poured huge amounts of money into R&D to create more powerful / more efficient & cleaner diesel engines. Hence the current models which are freely available thoughout most European countries as well as Australia / Japan etc...
In stark contrast - fuel in the US has for a long time been considerably cheaper than almost everywhere else on the planet. In addition the US auto-makers are stuck in a very deep rut - the logic of which demands that US manufactured cars should have very big / thirsty engines. It' a vicious circle!!
BIG engines = BIG fuel usage! Big fuel usage means Gasoline producers have a guarenteed market for BIG quantities of fuel.
Along comes diesel powered vehicles. 1) Good low pulling power. 2) Very fuel efficient.
Methinks the Gas companies wouldn't like the public to figure out that they can purchase a diesel vehicle which would give the same low down grunt as bigger petroleum engined cars / trucks, but at nearly half the monthly fuel bill.
Diesel engines = very thrifty = big savings on fuel costs = much less demand for large quantities of fuel = Gas companies making less profit.
SO - Who'd like to put some hard cash on the possibility that the gas companies are deliberately not producing the lower sulphur diesel which is so desparately needed to get these new high performance Diesel motors freely available in the US?
Posted by: Barry | Jul 18, 2006 3:05:31 PM
Put me on the list for a mid-size Toyota diesel. I can't believe how many previous posts are also waiting to purchase one. HELLO, calling Toyota!!
Jack
Posted by: Jack | Jul 19, 2006 11:46:11 PM
I'll take that bet!!! A couple of million barrels reduced by 30%......not good for oil companies.
Sulfur is not a problem for the vehicles. It is a problem for the EPA.
Which is more dirty? Burning diesel or 30%-50% more gasoline???
Barry, thanks for the notes on Europe, but keep in mind some of us live in Europe. I just want a cleaner car in the states and cannot see the logic involved.
Talk about asleep at the wheel.
Posted by: Nate D | Jul 23, 2006 3:41:14 PM
If the big oil companies are worried about losing profits because of lower fuel consumption, then why don't they design a diesel engine and sell it and make money off of that? I know, it's a strech. But they should look for alternative sources of income besides the backs of the working stiff.
Posted by: John | Aug 4, 2006 10:13:54 AM
has anyone done the math on how long it will take to break even, after paying the diesel premium?
Posted by: tom | Aug 10, 2006 4:15:24 PM
I am also waiting for Toyota to bring a mid size truck with a Diesel in it . What is Toyota waiting for in this country.
Posted by: Robert Mowbray | Aug 21, 2006 5:23:00 PM
Cost analysis would be prudent. You can be assured that any "new" diesel vehicle will be marketed in the $30k+ range without the option to simplify it (i.e. get rid of options like leather seating and power windows). Want the passenger room of a double cab and 4x4 capability?...look to spend $40k
Also, bring on the next generation of how-much-a-monthers who will finance a vehicle for 8 years at 17% and drive up the price for the rest of us who care about the "cost of total ownership"....wooohooo
Posted by: Mark | Aug 23, 2006 1:19:10 PM
I am so tired of waiting for a fuel efficient, off-road capable truck it's sick...Toyota I hope you have people reading these posts because the Toyota truck lovers out there want a mid-sized diesel truck, and have money burning holes in their pockets eager to purchase. Take a chance and release it...I mean what have you got to lose?
Posted by: Ize | Sep 6, 2006 3:11:40 PM
Isuzu has these diesels listed on their website;
http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/product/dmax/power_01.html
Posted by: pm | Sep 29, 2006 8:09:24 PM
Also, these engines would fit into a light truck;
http://www.isuzuengines.com/Products/Products.htm
Posted by: pm | Sep 29, 2006 8:14:21 PM
Good news: ULSD is here! Our supplier is currently filling our ground tanks with Ultra low sulfur diesel and after the 3rd fill we will have a stamp on our pumps stated that we are dispensing ULSD.
Here's the rub. Auto manufacturers are required to only offer ULSD vehicles for sale that meets the new ULSD standards shortly. Jeep for example is offering their new Compass crossover SUV for sale in a diesel but not until after the first of the year when ULSD will be available nationally. Hold tight! I think we are about to see a lot of new offerings...Rodger
Posted by: Rodger | Nov 11, 2006 12:27:59 PM
I have a 1985 Corolla that I'd like to convert to diesel. Any one know if its possible to buy a diesel engine to put in my car. I want to flip off the petro billionaires and try to jump start a revolution.
Posted by: Ron | Nov 22, 2006 7:13:16 PM
I am from Idaho, currently working in Batam, Indonesia. There are two awesome little Toyota diesel rigs here; the Prado, which looks like a smaller version of the Land Cruiser and the crew cab Hi Lux. I would give anything to see these practical, tough, efficient little rigs in the States. Hello, Toyota, not all Americans are looking for a V-6, and I suspect as fuel prices rise, an economical diesel would be prefferable to a 4-Runner with a ridiculous V-8.
Posted by: CD May | Nov 25, 2006 1:26:41 AM
I was in Europe this year and spotted a small, shorter version of the Toyota Landcruiser with a D-CAT diesel engine -- sweet! I am looking to import one to Vancouver, Canada -- if anyone has ever done it, I would sure like to know.
Posted by: Kelly | Dec 6, 2006 5:12:33 PM
I travel in England every year. This past May, I drove my second diesel rental car, a Ford Mondeo. This is a larger car, like a Camry or bigger, and had a 4 cylendar turbocharged diesel and a 6 speed manual trans. the thing got a solid 55 mpg, shoved you into the seat back in all 6 gears, and ran 70-80mph (so as not to get blown off the road) on the A and M dual carriageways (British freeways) all day long. Quiet, no rattling, no smoke, no smell. And according to the locals, this is "just a Mondeo", salesman's fleet car, not a nice German diesel rig. We are getting seriously screwed in the US.
I just want a diesel powered T100. My current gas powered T100 (1998 model) is a nice rig, but with a diesel would have way better pulling power and 30-40% more fuel economy. The new diesel Toyota truck looks like it'll be the ludicrously huge new Tundra, and with the rumored Cummins diesel, might do 20 mpg while not fitting in my garage. Just obscene.
Posted by: Doug | Dec 18, 2006 1:05:46 AM
Well, it's been 14 months since Kelly posted the last post above and nothing has changed. Except of course more than 3100 Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis have died in our most recent oil war and it's absolutely proven that global warming is being caused by our burning of massive amounts of fossil fuel. The American auto companies are still pushing their gas hogs and sinking deeper in debt by the day. Foreign manufacturers are selling fuel efficient vehicle but they're not available in the US.
What is wrong with this picture.
During times of war or national emergencies, such as what we're living through now, free markets must take back seat to national security. If the technology is available, and it obviously is, to lessen our over-dependence of Middle Eastern oil, the government has a duty and obligation to ensure that technology is readily available.
I know the major stumbling block to clean deisel technology use here in the US is the low sulphur fuel availability but that problem can and must be rectified by government action and the sooner the better.
Posted by: Jerry Hannelly | Feb 6, 2007 4:09:15 PM
I currently drive an "81" Toyota diesel pickup. It's works long and hard all it's life, but it's for an up dated truck. My truck gets 30/40 MPG and no replacement is to be found.A compact pick-up that gets 30/40 MPG is oviously over Damler-Chryslers,Ford or GMC's skill block. Toyota, step up to the plate and bat home run. You could win the series on this one. Thanx Paul
Posted by: paul | Feb 9, 2007 5:25:45 PM
I wish America would just adopt the more reasonable European emission standards.
I wish CARB would be ignored and the EU standards be implemented.
Many Americans want the full range of diesel vehicles, not just large heavy duty trucks.
Also diesel technology can have the most immediate impact on reducing our dependency on foreign oil but just when there is an opportunity to do something about it Tier 2 Bin 5 is introduced.
I hate to see so many American soldiers killed to protect our interest (oil).
We need to change our ways.
Gus
Posted by: Gus Hammerly | Feb 15, 2007 6:20:20 PM
Count me in for a Toyota diesel pickup. I've been waiting and watching for the past ten years. Glad to see other people share the same desire for a fuel-efficient alternative to the gas guzzlers currently available.
Posted by: Scott | Mar 18, 2007 4:51:04 PM
I own an imported Toyota diesel (landcruiser) with 2.4 turbo diesel. I have been told that Toyota does not care much about the Canadian market because it is small compared to the large world market, so we might have a long wait for Toyota to bring all its diesels here.
As far as the these great benefits of diesels, even 'though I own one, I must say the comments here seem a bit far-fetched. Firstly, the best mileage I can coach out of my 2.4 turbo diesel is 25 mpg, and that is mostly highway with a light foot, and the Prado is a downsized Landcuiser. The four cylinder diesel has no where near the power of a similar gas engine, even with the turbo. And finally, my previous Ford Taurus wagon's 3.0 litre gas engine went 315,000 km before I sold it without a problem, whereas the Toyota has already had a head job at 100,000 km.
I do like diesels, and I love my Landcruiser. The clattering sound is soothing, and the whine of the turbo makes me feel like I am driving a rig. But smoke and noise aside, high speed light duty diesels do not deliver the longevity and mileage one can expect from their slow-speed big brother commercial units.
Check out the web and you will find a lot of info on Toyota diesels, and many have inherent design flaws. (I just spent $4500 fixing one with low, low kms, and I am not alone.)
Posted by: Ken | Mar 24, 2007 2:23:03 AM
I own an imported Toyota diesel (landcruiser) with 2.4 turbo diesel. I have been told that Toyota does not care much about the Canadian market because it is small compared to the large world market, so we might have a long wait for Toyota to bring all its diesels here.
As far as the these great benefits of diesels, even 'though I own one, I must say the comments here seem a bit far-fetched. Firstly, the best mileage I can coach out of my 2.4 turbo diesel is 25 mpg, and that is mostly highway with a light foot, and the Prado is a downsized Landcuiser. The four cylinder diesel has no where near the power of a similar gas engine, even with the turbo. And finally, my previous Ford Taurus wagon's 3.0 litre gas engine went 315,000 km before I sold it without a problem, whereas the Toyota has already had a head job at 100,000 km.
I do like diesels, and I love my Landcruiser. The clattering sound is soothing, and the whine of the turbo makes me feel like I am driving a rig. But smoke and noise aside, high speed light duty diesels do not deliver the longevity and mileage one can expect from their slow-speed big brother commercial units.
Check out the web and you will find a lot of info on Toyota diesels, and many have inherent design flaws. (I just spent $4500 fixing one with low, low kms, and I am not alone.)
Posted by: Ken | Mar 24, 2007 2:23:06 AM
can anyone give me any concrete information on any new diesel passenger vehicles bieng introduced to the US this year, or the near future, thank you
Posted by: richard marshall | Mar 31, 2007 8:41:19 PM
I have a 1985 Isuzu long bed diesel pickup that I bought new. It now has 307,000 miles on it and does not use more than 1 quart of oil between oil changes. I paid $7200 for it new and will not part with it. The reason these kinds of vehicles aren't available is likely because they last so long. Only a customer would want that. I think I will just keep driving it. I am 64 now and the truck may just outlast me.
When the auto makers give me what I want then maybe I will buy another vehicle.
P.S. My other vehicle is a 1982 Merc. 240D with 327,000 on it. Stick it GM.
Posted by: carl swalla | May 7, 2007 7:04:17 PM
Lot's of folks don't remember but in the late 70's and early 80's Toyota produced a diesel version of the Toyota pick-up. (Back then there wasn't a Tacoma, T-100, or Tundra. It was a little bitty truck that would run for eternity on a fill up and would pull anything you tied it to or smoke the tires up trying. It had alot more pulling power than weight to hold it down. And being a Toyota,,, keep it serviced,,, it was tougher than a bag of claw hammers,,,,,Bring it back !!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Greg | May 12, 2007 3:21:52 PM
After driving a Diesel on trips thru Europe, I decided to find a commuting car upon my return to the states. I found a used one owner 60K 1998 VW Beetle TDI. I have been driving this car for the past year averaging 44MPG combined. This has been a great computer car on my 150 round trip commute.
I am waiting to replace my Yukon XL/Suburban with a Diesel model. Being a generally dissatisfied GMC owner, the only thing that could bring me back to the GM dealer would be a diesel version of the Yukon XL. My suggestion on any new model would be an additional warranty.
I would be very careful about any new diesel engine and tranny unless it has a track record. Jeep Liberty diesel was known to have a major problem with the tranny. My local Jeep dealer steered me away from this model and urged me to wait. The new Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel just started arriving at the dealership. The car runs and drives well. It should be a great truck, engine and tranny are supposed to be proven from the MB line. Unfortunately the truck is pretty tight inside.
Posted by: knut | May 23, 2007 7:22:32 PM
Finally - Global Vehicles is going to begin importing a small diesl pickup - the Mahindra from India. Supposed to be here in 2008. I hope everyone here buys one, as I will, and let the established brands wonder where all their sales went. Sayonara suckers!
Posted by: Cam | Jun 5, 2007 11:57:06 PM
Elsewhere on green car congress is news of a honda accord diesel for US.That should put a bee in toyotas bonnett
Posted by: middleoroad | Jun 6, 2007 11:13:04 AM
I'm so ready for a Diesel/ Hybrid I dreamt about it last night.
The Asians underestimate our ability to catch on.... just bring it here. I can sell this combination of Fuel options to anyone. I am so desperate for a diesel, I am almost ready to buy the 2008 Tiguan (VW) ....with no confidence in its reliability otherwise.
Please....put diesel hybrid in a SMALL SUV and in small to medium size cars.
I'd also love to lease the Honda Hydogen
Posted by: Felicia | Jun 15, 2007 4:59:13 PM
why don't you guys just start a petition and see how many people will sign it. then toyota might start paying attention.
Posted by: jess | Jun 25, 2007 12:59:55 PM
I have what everyone is talking about here! I live and work in Paradise in Costa Rica. I own a 2006 3.0 turbo diesel Nissan Frontier. Very, very happy with this car. I am wondering is it possible or ever worth it to import it to California? I want to run bio-diesel. Any information is GREATLY appreciated. - Thanks
Posted by: Scott | Jun 29, 2007 2:11:34 PM
I have what everyone is talking about here! I live and work in Paradise in Costa Rica. I own a 2006 3.0 turbo diesel Nissan Frontier. Very, very happy with this car. I am wondering is it possible or ever worth it to import it to California? I want to run bio-diesel. Any information is GREATLY appreciated. - Thanks
Posted by: Scott | Jun 29, 2007 2:26:56 PM
My understanding of why diesels are not available in the US and are in Europe and elsewhere is the following:
The emissions requirements in California and several other states (a big part of overall US market) can not be met by the diesels that are being driven in those other places... the reason is that the NOx emission is too high. Basically our emissions requirements are more strict (at least for NOx.)
Honda has announced that they have solved the NOx problem with their new plasma exhaust system available in 2009... I can't wait. My 1987 Accord has 230k miles and I'm ready for an upgrade.
Posted by: August | Jul 6, 2007 2:12:56 PM
North American consumers should simply boycott Toyota until they market their diesel range in the US and Canada. I've driven a Camry for 9 years and will NOT purchase another Toyota product until I can buy a Toyota diesel here (Canada), preferably a Landcruiser.
Posted by: Donald Lovegrove | Oct 27, 2007 11:59:19 AM
1984 nissan sentra mpg model. was unbelievable 50 mpg and now in 2007 nothing gets that, why? controled by uncle sam, sell more gas make more money.
Posted by: darrell | Nov 3, 2007 8:04:19 AM
Wow look at the age of this blog and still no toyota tacoma diesel. This started back in 2005. Now we are headed into 2008 and if you want a tacoma double cab then you are foreced to suffer horrible gas mileage. I guess it is no wonder there are so many people out there that just get fed up and build their own.
I wonder how many thousands of tacomas would sell if they offered a nice 5 or 6 cyl diesel that averaged 30ish mpg. Maybe just enough towing power to pull a small boat or a light weight race car? I guess it is just a pipe dream at the moment.
I for one would love to be able to get rid of the idea of a tow vehicle and a daily driver. I have an old chevy truck for towing and will be buying a tdi jetta come spring. I would buy a tacoma diesel and get rid of 2 cars if they decide to make it available in 08 but I bet I will see this blog again in a couple of years and sit back and laugh.
A little less talk and a lot more action from all of the car companies. There were big promises of diesels from most manufacturers but coming up on the new year I see none!
Posted by: Larry | Dec 24, 2007 3:27:07 PM
I too am longing for the day a compact diesel will be available in the US, however I won't hold my breath waiting. Greed is what drives this economy, not logic, or customer demand. The only vote you have is where you choose to spend your money. Emmissions pollution can be offset through new economic models. It is obvious to anyone who pays attention that something in the US is more than broken. I would prefer a Toyota diesel which exists everywhere else. GM can twist in the wind for all I care. Their stupidity should have ended them already but the stupidity of the American consumer knows no bounds.
Posted by: Joel | Mar 17, 2008 7:22:52 PM
How about a Toyata Aygo, 4 doors, diesel, 70 mpg, as a daily transporter. Put a roof rack on it for the long stuff.
Fuel prices are around $4.50 per gal on average for diesel/gas, diesel runs .70 higher. We are stuck with auto makers cheering a 30 mpg car, as new technology. The way to drop the price of fuel by 1/2 is allow the people to buy real economic transportation. Not the Hybrid Chevy with it's 21 mpg rating. Wake up Big Auto.
Posted by: Timl | Jun 15, 2008 5:46:06 AM
I recently spent a month in southern Costa Rica, where I saw and admired the new Toyota Hilux with Diesel engines, and manual transmissions. I talked with several Toyota Diesel owners and they all praised their trucks, their performance and superb fuel economy. I was
tempted to buy one and one owner was willing to sell his truck to me to drive to California, but feared
being arrested and jailed. I should have bought it anyway, afterall life is not worth living without one of these magnificent Toyota Diesel trucks.
Meantime I am stuck with my huge Dodge truck Cummins powered w/monster torque and low fuel mileage, too expensive to
drive at over $5.00 per gallon of diesel. So I keep the monster parked,
waiting for Toyota to bring us the Hilux Diesel pickup.
Please Toyota, hear my pleas, bring us this truck to the USA. Don't force me to go back to Costa Rica and buy that truck.
Sincerely
Isidro Rincon, Vallejo, California, USA
Posted by: Isidro Rincon | Jul 3, 2008 10:25:32 PM
I often work overseas in Africa and South America where almost all the PUs are diesels. In Tanzania we had one of Toyotas old models (the truck was new)of the Land Cruiser diesel with the small diesel in it. Too small and not powerful enough for North America but just right for the dirt roads in Tanzania (it can go faster than 100kph (60mph)although it takes a while to get there))and good on fuel. In the NWT in Canada a diamond mine I worked at had Ford diesels PUs which were a disgrace, loud, clackity and rough. In Peru we had Nissans and Toyotas diesel 4x4 PUs which were again very dependable, smooth and fuel misers. I too would like to see them arrive here. We should have invested as the Germans had in a good apprenticeship program because I am not sure whether we have mechanics who can work on them. I would also like our prices to more closely reflect American prices now that our dollar in at or near par.
By the way I think that way back in 1980s I had a Toyota Hi-Lux PU 2wheel drive 2.4L engine and I got about 28 to 30MPG (Canada was imp. gal. 20% more although we sell now in litres. i.e. multiply by .8 for american mpg. What happened to those trucks?
Posted by: Orlo | Jul 15, 2008 9:47:36 PM
I am shopping for an awd diesel. I am verging on getting a very low km 2007 Mercedes ML 320 CDI but everything I read about Merc reliability in recent years scares the bejeesus out of me. I asked the salesman if the new GLK is going to have a diesel option and he said no, they didn't think there was a market for it. Meanwhile he tells me that 62% of their total vehicle sales are now diesel. Huh???
I have been driving a Tribeca and loving it. It is so frustrating to go to other countries and see all the excellent diesel vehicles by Japanese manufacturers and not be able to buy them here. If Subaru, Honda, Nissan or Toyota offered an awd diesel I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Posted by: Jay Wortman | Jul 19, 2008 10:37:20 AM
I am shopping for an awd diesel. I am verging on getting a very low km 2007 Mercedes ML 320 CDI but everything I read about Merc reliability in recent years scares the bejeesus out of me. I asked the salesman if the new GLK is going to have a diesel option and he said no, they didn't think there was a market for it. Meanwhile he tells me that 62% of their total vehicle sales are now diesel. Huh???
I have been driving a Tribeca and loving it. It is so frustrating to go to other countries and see all the excellent diesel vehicles by Japanese manufacturers and not be able to buy them here. If Subaru, Honda, Nissan or Toyota offered an awd diesel I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Posted by: Jay Wortman | Jul 19, 2008 10:38:33 AM
mahindra
Posted by: mike | Sep 25, 2008 12:45:39 PM
