compared to the one at 25mpg

wrong comparison for people making a new purchase on economics, try a Yaris at 34/40 city/highway and $10K less than a Prius. A Civic at 30/40 at $7K less. An Accent at 32/35 and $9K less. A Rio at 32/38 at $10K less.

"People are hard on GM because they missed the boat and aren't even really playing catchup." (posted by "t")

t is right on this one. But there is more than that. What really burns me about GM is the way they laughed at the whole idea of hybrids when they were first brought up and the first companies went out on a limb with them (Honda & Toyota). And they scoffed at plug-in hybrids, giving the impression they would continue building "real" cars while the tree-huggers like many of us, I suppose, chased our hybrid fairy-tales down dead-ends.

It was only when they realized from a financial point of view that they were getting their lazy (managerial) butts handed back to them by hybrid makers that they had to start at least talking right. Hence they suddenly put on the big glossy corporate smile for the cameras and almost over-night suddenly said how they are committed to the environment, gas mileage advertising campaigns sprung up recently, yada yada. It makes me sick!!!! It's that kind of corporate two-facedness that is so disgusting to many, and one reason out of others as well why I will never buy from them.

However, having gotten that off my chest, I am still *very* pleased to see this development over none at all by GM. 20% improvement is good!

"People are hard on GM because they missed the boat and aren't even really playing catchup." (posted by "t")

t is right on this one. But there is more than that. What really burns me about GM is the way they laughed at the whole idea of hybrids when they were first brought up and the first companies went out on a limb with them (Honda & Toyota). And they scoffed at plug-in hybrids, giving the impression they would continue building "real" cars while the tree-huggers like many of us, I suppose, chased our hybrid fairy-tales down dead-ends.

It was only when they realized from a financial point of view that they were getting their lazy (managerial) butts handed back to them by hybrid makers that they had to start at least talking right. Hence they suddenly put on the big glossy corporate smile for the cameras and almost over-night suddenly said how they are committed to the environment, gas mileage advertising campaigns sprung up recently, yada yada. It makes me sick!!!! It's that kind of corporate two-facedness that is so disgusting to many, and one reason out of others as well why I will never buy from them.

However, having gotten that off my chest, I am still *very* pleased to see this development over none at all by GM. 20% improvement is good!

GM's two mode full hybrid system will be in the new Tahoe Hybrid, which will be out for the 2008 model year line up (so I've been told)...Toyota won't have all of their vehicles hybridized by then.

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, because I see transportation as more than some better car, as if. Urban/suburban transportation is fundamenatally multi-modal - walking, bicycling and mass transit as well as personal automobiles.

As things are now, there is no choice but to drive, for most people. And, this is exactly the transportation monopoly frickin' GM intends to maintain with their psuedo-hybrids, laughing all the way to the bank.

With the Plug-in Hybrid, a decentralized power source creates the incentive to drive shorter distances, patronizing and directing the growth of local economies. In time, more destinations can be accessed without having to drive. This, GM does not wish to happen. No money in it.

So, figure it out. Does GM care? NO! Fuck NO! Those here who wish to remain clueless about GM, GET OUT OF THE FUCKING WAY! GM IS GOING DOWN!! We don't need that monstrous corporation plotting destruction for power and profit.

"GM's two mode full hybrid system will be in the new Tahoe Hybrid, which will be out for the 2008 model year line up (so I've been told)...Toyota won't have all of their vehicles hybridized by then."

"have almost its whole lineup available with a hybrid drivetrain"

GM does not build a single true hybrid.

What GM builds is a "psuedo-hybrid", a ruse hybrid, just as they build a ruse with their preposterous fuel cell prototypes; drive-by-wire my ass.

The Toyota Prius, on the other hand, can evolve into the Plug-in Hybrid, which can achieve 500+ mpg.

Fuckin' GM! GM knows it's going bankrupt. But do they care? No. GM is building manufacturing plants in China, Mexico and who knows where, to build their shitty, over-powered cars, using slave labor, and ship them back to the USA captive market of American automatons, driving everywhere, with no choice but to drive. Does GM care? No.

Hello? Is this Northstah? Can yew hep me find a place to park? My leg hurts and my son is locked inside and he's only 15 and hasn't learned how to unlock the door yet. And, I've lost my keys. Oh Northstah, would yew pleese hep me? Pleeeese?

This is all so familiar. It reminds me of the article posted here at GCC about toyota selling more powerful pickups and I chimed in to say if GM or Ford had done this people would be whining about the big three and it would go from there to big oil, halliburtin and then finish somewhere around GWB and D. Cheney. I had people claiming I was making this tendency up and it doesn't really happen. Of course then he ended up telling me I was flaming a group he claimed didn't exist. How are you JW?

Anyway, maybe the car isn't cutting edge. So what? I think the only people who should be allowed to be as smug as all the hybrid owners are people who ride bicycles. If you aren't doing that, maybe you should understand not everyone is willing to roll the insight.

Cheers.

JRod.

Hybrid or not, I am damn sure Aura still will have leaking oil pan gasket.

I'm pleased to see GM coming around. I don't believe they are about to dissapear and they need to do something. Believe it or not, many folk are intimidated by the technology of hybrids. (Some folk won't fly or take an elevator either.) By this GM is signalling to the world that hybrids aren't scarry. As such they do a service to the hybrid cause. If they can crank out enough of them we will actually save some fuel too, and what's wrong with that? The more companies get into the race, the faster battery technology will advance and that leads to price reductions and plug in hybrids. So lets cut them a little slack and give them a little credit. Hybrids are not a trivial design job. Besides, the improvements they make on their hybrids will likely also spill over into the rest of their non-hybrid vehicles

Electric air conditioning is not normally done on an automobile because at 12 volts an efficient electric motor for a compressor would be very bulky and heavy.

Other great ideas becoming popular because of the hybrid design work are; electric assist power steering, streamlining, cylinder deactivation, low drag disk brakes, Iridium plugs, and rolling bearing rocker arms.

Because the high torque of an electric engine compliments the low torque of advanced cycle engines, the hybrid engine does actually get better mileage for the same power on the highway.

For what it's worth, I drive an Insight, a 1990s design that has averaged over 70 miles to the US gallon for three years now. I love it. :D

If they hadn't killed the EV1, would we be of the same opinion (about GM)?

"So, figure it out. Does GM care? NO! Fuck NO! Those here who wish to remain clueless about GM, GET OUT OF THE FUCKING WAY! GM IS GOING DOWN!! We don't need that monstrous corporation plotting destruction for power and profit."

Seriously, all of you GM-Haters out there are just oblivious. What major corporation do you think has your own best interests in mind? All this talk about GM "scoffing" at hybrids. How the hell does anyone know what GM's plans were? Perhaps they were being a little careful with their precarious financial position. Hybrids are NOT at huge money maker at this point. Should GM be judged by different standards than any other public company?

Has Daimler-Chrysler done more? BMW? Nissan? Those of you who think Toyota is getting into hybrids out of the kindness of their hearts are kidding themselves. They are capitalizing on a growing fear of fuel shortages.

GM is an important part of the American economy, as well as our culture. GM is tring to turn it around, and it's not going to happen overnight. They take a step in the right direction like this, and everyone that has some bitterness towards GM comes out of the woodwork.

Hoping GM goes out of business? Real smart. We'll all be riding Chinese-made bicycles to work.

>http://ev1-club.power.net/archive/nimhtest/nimhtest.htm
So what was wrong with this car? With the advent of
nano tech LiIon this seems like the car for me even back in 1999 with Nimh batteries.

This website is full of idiots.
Do people realy believe that GM=bad and Toyota=good?
Do they not realise that Toyota also makes gass guzzling SUVs and trucks?
Do they not realise that Toyota only started off the hybrid thing after basicaly being told to buy the Japanese government?
Do they realy think that Toyota puts saving the planet anywhere near maximising profit on their list of priorities?
Why can't they see it as a good think that GM is bringing out a car that gets better fuel economy?

Gm is in trouble and slow on hybrids. Ok

GM is not the antichrist. GM is not the only car company late on hybrids. What about Chrysler? Mercedes? Mazda? Nissan? Two of those companies have actually stated publicly they are anti-hybrid.

GM makes a few market leading cars that if I was buying in that segment it would be a no brainer...
The Pontiac Solstice - A great small speeder
The Chevrolet Colorado - Basically the only choice in a small pickup knowing that even Toyota has upsised thier offerings and the Ford Ranger is a 20 year old design.
Saturn Vue - Best mpg in non hybrid suv and soon to have hybrid option with best suv mpg

By just 2007 I think GM will surpass Ford and be #3 in hybrids. Ahead of Chrysler, Mercedes, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsubishi, BWM etc etc

It will all come down to market forces, primarily as a result of the lack of government leadership.

We will have the blowhard with tiny peters buying Hummers, and other such trash, and others who are wiling to pay any price to save a few mpg.

Then the treehuggers will totally convert to China made bicycles.

As for me - I'm in the market for a modern Horse and Buggy.

The hybrid tax credit is a huge government signal about which direction is needed.

They would not be giving $3K credits indirectly to Japan if things were not serious.

Once again, GM is NOT building hybrids. GM is keeping its product line obsolete in order to protect future sales and profits. This action delays progress toward fuel efficiency, emission reduction and vehicular safety. GM, other automobile-related or dependent industries and financial institutions have built a transportation monopoly, whereby no other means of travel may function and no local economy may survive globalization.

GM is conducting an American Revolution bent on destroying America. We have the right to spit on GM's corporate executives and call them what they are: traitors!

GM's corporate executives - TRAITORS!

PATOO!

Never argue with a fool ... they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

It is so much fun to see the hippies whine and get shotdown by thouse that know better.

What a great site.

What would be the point of a vheicle that produced zero emmissions if it cost 10 billion?

Last I heard a PEM fuel cell powerful enough to run a car would cost $20,000 and have a useful life of 500 hrs. Considering a normal IC engine can be had for unker 2K and has an expected service life of 5000 hrs ... it is little wonder why that is the route most take.

The people that are going to be hurt the most by rising fuel prices are the ones least able to go out and buy a new car.

Making improvements to vehicles that don't add to the cost is a good move. They may not even increase the price as now you don't have to have a starter and an alternator.

To thouse bashing GM or any other company.

You are just mad because GM is still doing more to "save the earth" than you are.

Interesting how my 1999 Saturn SL1 still gets 41 mpg on the highway! It's been a continuous slow slide in fuel economy for Saturn ever since the 2001 model year across their entire fleet. It's become a little ritual for me to write Saturn nasty emails once every few months to inform them of this shameful fact. Until John Q. Public decides that 0-60 mph times and raw horsepower are not important, I doubt any US automaker is going to seriously pursue creating an efficient, lightweight and sensible vehicle. I personally would LOVE a small 50 horsepower sedan that gets 100 mpg.

LOL
James, if you had to spend your own money what would you drive. A toyota or a GM? Nuff said.

I'm no hippy. And I'm not as foolish as "non-hippy", who would save a penny and lose a dollar. The cost of progress will not be cheap. Those who believe otherwise, like 'non-hippy', (does describing oneself as a 'non-hippy' presume the alternate moniker of 'redneck'), have been led astray by bigotrous propaganda.

And how about the latest Chrysler commercials? Those who don't drive a Chrysler must be a sissy, non-hippies non-grudgingly submit. Do as you're told, non-hippy. Follow the rules commanded on TV.

if GM gets this saturn Aura right. it can be a true hypermiler's car. I just hope you can regen while the engine is off, otherwise I have no hope in this thing!

Why am I mad at GM? Because of their managements shear stupidity. The VP of R&D laughed at hybrid calling it a waste and now they have metal rusting on car lots and have to lay middle class people off. Then you hear GM crying to the American people that they dont know how they will come up with enough MONEY to pay what they promised in benifits. SHOCKING..
Their management makes mistakes and they want to be able to break the law or have me pay for them. Its no different than Chrysler and Ford. Stupid is as Stupid does.
GM has great engineers and manufacturing but they dont let it loose. You think they cant make a EV1 with Li Ion today?? They just dont want too.
Fat over stuffed CEO's like to control the market. I think of GM's board as a fat pig ready to take decent hard working people with them.
Toyota cant build enough Prius and is moving forward making them better ALL the time though the current trial and error. GM?
Gee wonder why when Gas is at about 3.00 a gallon SUV's are not selling. A few months ago Bob Lutz was saying how everyone was worng the SUV is great for GM..
I am mad at GM because I want them to suceede because they have great people working there. Instead what is obvious to a consumer like me they are being led into failure. There goes another bunch of good paying jobs from shear arogance and stupidity.

Bob