Hats off to all those who buy fuel efficient cars. CR has trouble thinking outside the box. They panned the Insight too. Thankfully I ignored them. :D

Thank you Audrey!! It's refreshing to hear someone state some actual facts about the Prius. I have over 50,000 miles experience with mine, and would only part with it when the next gen comes out.........

BTW, how do you know the Prius is subsidized?

We rented a Smart in Berlin for a week this summer. I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt, the Smart is by far the worst car I have ever had the displeasure to drive. Even on slow city streets it pitches violently back and forth when accelerating and braking because of the short wheel base. Body roll makes it feel more like a boat than a car and if that doesn't get to you the vibration from the 3 cyl engine will. The manumatic transmission takes ages to shift. Buy one if you want. Given the choice I would rather walk. We returned the Smart after only 4 days and got a VW Polo for the rest of our trip.

Everybody knows the Prius is subsidized. If you believe anything else you are kidding yourself. Mind you it is a very good deal for the consumer as long as Toyota can keep up the subsidies. GM bought and took apart a Prius to not only figure out how its built, but also how much each part costs. They came up with a total cost of $35000.

The Smart is the worst cars on earth. Well maybe an Aztek looks worse. In its 9 year history Smart has never turned a profit. Its too small, too expensive and too damn impractical. The Smart is also subsidized. Its a miracle they are even doing a second generation. If this one fails to turn a profit in America you can be sure this will be the last one.

Pastulio -

aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. Many Europeans find a lot of US car and truck designs bland, overbearing or just plain ugly. I imagine many Americans feel much the same way about a lot of European designs. One shape does does not suit all.

The original fortwo does indeed feature an ultra-short wheelbase, causing it to pitch noticeably when braking or accelerating hard. The ultra-small 700cc engine has to rev high to produce power, generating unwelcome vibrations. The gear box is indeed a little sluggish. All three negatives have been addressed in the redesign.

As for practicality, it depends on what you expect from the vehicle. In Europe and Asia, cities are crowded and parking hard to find. There, the small size is very valuable not just for commuters but also for small businesses that need people to scoot around town while they're on the clock. Here in Vienna, many smarts feature corporate logos & contact info, so they double as rolling billboards. The shape may be weird but it does turn heads.

Your argument wrt profitability is perhaps the most relevant one. DCX has not figured out how to share the intellectual property nor many of the parts that go into a fortwo with any other model or manufacturer.

This is mostly due to an absence of lateral thinking: they should license the technology to manufacturers in China, India and elsewhere for a modest fee but retain exclusive distribution rights in OECD countries for all products derived from it.

The also wasted a lot of money barking up the wrong tree with the forfour, the roadster and the planned formore pocket SUV (all canceled by now). If the base fortwo can turn a profit, they should consider adding only minor variations, specifically a stretched version with four seats and/or additional cargo space.

Do not kid yourself. Toyota pays 2000$ to Sanyo for Prius battery pack, which lasts, well, forever. The price is old–time hedge, and modern price for a battery is close to 1000$. All other components are quite inexpensive to manufacture, let out R&D spending.

Do not kid yourself. Smart is not a car. It is motorized armchair. If somebody OK with it, good luck.

Prius is fun to drive. Last month I got an article from Australian performance junkies. The guy with Carrera, Skyline, Eve and alike in his garage suddenly realized that he unconsciously choose Prius to drive his kids to soccer practice and to get 12-pack from corner store – because Preius is fun to drive.

Having just visited Barcelon, Spain for a week, I saw a lot of Smart cars plus a lot of other cars that were nearly as small as the Smart. During the entire week, I only saw two SUVs, terribly out of place. Barcelona, like a lot of European cities has great public transportation and walkability; a car is rarely necessary.

If one chooses to drive a car, the roads are terribly congested and parking is a nighmare. For those few times when driving might be necessary, I can see the utility of a car like a Smart. I saw it parked in places that would have been impossible for a larger car.

For a city like Barcelona, I can see that the advantages of the Smart would outweigh the disadvantages. Besides, in cities like Barcelona, the chances of getting crushed by a giant vehicle are considerably less than in the U.S.

As for the kind of driving that people typically do in the U.S., I can see how people would be hesitant to buy a vehicle like the Smart. For the foreseeable future, I will stick with my Prius, which apparently gets mileage as good or better than the Smart.

In concept, I personally like the Smart because I love small cars. Hopefully, these latest modifications will get it closer to prime time. If I lived in the city, however, I would mostly walk and use a bicycle.

There is no market for these cars. Not even in europe. The few that are sold are not enough to ever turn a profit. The SMART is an expensive dead end for DCX.

"BTW, how do you know the Prius is subsidized?"
The same way that a Ford Expedition "subsidizes" a Focus.
There's more profit in an Expedition....or use to be.

Banada Rama - what you say is not true - I'm a german who
lives in the states since 2 years. The smart is extremely popular in europe since around a decade. I don't
advocate the smart..Volkswagen has built the Lupo 3L(almost 80mpg, a turbodiesel) and Audi built the A2(turbodiesel) which had nearly the same fuel economy. I would prefer them to the smart because they are 4 seaters.
There is so much misinformation here in the US, maybe you should take a trip to europe..

Everybody knows the Prius is subsidized.

There's an airtight argument.

We have both an 05 smart and an 06 Prius, the smart returns better fuel economy and cost half the Prius. I use the smart for work and my wife drives the Prius for her work and if we need to haul more than two people (rarely). I think the smart is more fun to drive.

Doug.

What mileage do you get for the Smart and the Prius? If you don't mind my asking, where do you live? In any event, good for you. Your attitude rocks.

Thanks
We are in Victoria BC Canada. My wife's Prius city driving results in 5.5 L/100km on the trip computer. She makes no effort to drive it any differently than any other car she has owned. My smart gets 4.6 average city and 3.3 hwy if I observe the 80 and 90km speed limits. It goes up to 3.8 if I start to haul along.

When can we buy a Prius plug-in from Toyota?

Our excellent 4-cyl Camry is due to be replaced in 2007/08 and we would be willing to pay $10K more for a Prius PHEV with an electric only range of 60 to 100 Km.

The garage in our new place is equipped with 115 VAC and 220 VAC 20 Amps outlets.

Anything else on the horizon?

Suggestions?

Harvey:

http://www.hymotion.com/

pizmo
Do you take quotes out of context in order to make yourself feel better about being wrong or do you actually have something useful bit of information to contribute?

There are developments in DME in China today:
We see great potential for DME as a clean alternative fuel . The present diesel oil is a major source of air pollution from diesel engine of trucks and busses in large city like Tokyo. The potential market of diesel oil substitute is larger than LPG. DME is one of ideal fuel for diesel engine. DME vehicles were demonstratively manufactured in Japan, China and Korea and their driving test already started. Practical durability fleet test of a DME truck is under going in Japan.

We are pleased to organise a conference on China taking the lead in the DME market in production from coal and Japan and Korea activities.

If you would like to know more on COAL to Syngas to DME developments, join us at upcoming North Asia DME / Methanol conference in Beijing, 27-28 June 2007, St Regis Hotel. The conference covers key areas which include:

DME productivity can be much higher especially if
country energy policies makes an effort comparable to
that invested in increasing supply.
By:
National Development Reform Commission NDRC
Ministry of Energy for Mongolia

Production of DME/ Methanol through biomass
gasification could potentially be commercialized
By:
Shandong University completed Pilot plant in Jinan and
will be sharing their experience.

Advances in conversion technologies are readily
available and offer exciting potential of DME as a
chemical feedstock
By: Kogas, Lurgi and Haldor Topsoe

Available project finance supports the investments
that DME/ Methanol can play a large energy supply role
By: International Finance Corporation

For more information: www.iceorganiser.com

I would like to know where I can find this chrysler Micro Car and I can try it and know the price.

thank You, Anna K

All these comments are very interesting. My question is where can I purchase one?

when can I buy one

These message threads are a hoot to read.....everyone is an expert with little personal experience. I was doubtful about the smart until I watched my sister's positive experiences with hers and an acquaintances amazing performance with his smart. The 2nd mentioned has acquired 320,000kms in year round driving in HARSH prairie climate. From extreme cold with blizzards to summer heat his little smarty just chugs along. He realizes it aint no sports car but IS reliable, cheap to operate, and fun to drive. He recently bought a 2nd smarty, the new gas version and is just as pleased. I guess if you buy what you want and need you'll be happy.....whether or not its a smarty or an SUV. I just dont understand the Hummers I see going to 7-11!

I'm buying one before year end to cash in on the Federal govt rebate program.....$2000 back on $20000 car is a bonus.

Buy what you like, drive safely and we'll share the roads......ok? Smarty owners just wont see you at the pumps very often.

Oh, smarty's are pretty much recyclable.....can the same be said for most other cars?