The question has been raised concerning just
how much impact would a shift from gasoline to
electric cars have on the electrical grid. The
first thing that one has to realize is that all
those gasoline cars are not suddenly going to be
thrown on the junkheap and replaced by battery
powered vehicles. Another is that nowhere near
every driver will have the means to recharge at
home-apartment and most townhouse and condo
dwellers and those on trips will all depend upon
public charging stations, although it's safe to
predict that some multi-family units will build
their own charging stations for their resident's
use. In terms of added electrical demand, what are
we looking at, if we confine ourselves to the non-
commercial vehicles used by private citizens? We
know that the U.S. uses 120 billion gallons of
gasoline every year for such vehicles. Since
over half are pickups and SUVs, and assuming
that the majority of gasoline is consumed in
non-highway driving, I'll estimate that the miles
driven is approximately 2,000 billion. Assuming
that our typical vehicle, if electrified, would
require 1 kilowatt hour to drive 4.2 miles, that
means the U.S. fleet would consume 2,000 billion
divided by 4.2 , or 476 billion kilowatt hours of
energy per year, or 1.3 billion kWhrs per day, or
54 million kwhrs per hour. The U.S. electrical grid
capacity is around 975,000 megawatts, or 975 million
kilowatts, capable of producing 975 million kilowatt
hours per hour, meaning that non-commercial electric
transportation would need a bit more than 5% of
current capacity. But that level of all-electric
transportation wouldn't be reached for many years.
In the early stages, with 20% of the cars electrified,
the demand would be 1% of our electrical capacity.
From all this, we see that electrifying transportation
will not have a gigantic impact on the national electrical grid, especially when its realized that a very large part of the demand will be during the nighttime hours, when excess capacity exists on the grid. There is also the fact that by not refining all that gasoline, a great deal of energy, much of it electric, will be saved. There will also be savings because the number of recharging stations will nowhere near be the number of gasoline stations needed nowadays.
Of course, all of those 120 billion gallons of gasoline
isn't used only for transportation vehicles. Some is used for lawn mowers, boats, RV's and so on, so the demand estimates would be somewhat overstated.

Remember that the electic vehicle is not ideal for everybody- just ideal for a whole lot more people than you think. They serve the majority of car commuter needs. Remember that even if all the electricity needed to charge millions of new electric vehicles were geneterate by coal power, that would still be a vast improvemt of current car pollution output. The electric car is far more energy efficient that the ice car. electricty is generated in better controlled conditions.

Also there is no wasted energy looking for energy or delivering energy to gas stations. An economy driven by electric vehicles would not have millions of oil spots under the engine locations in parking spot and there would be no oil streak down the middle of highway lanes, either. No waste oil poured down drains and millions of spent filters to dispose of.

I just received an email today from ALTAIRNANO, it looks like the battery packs are going for around $75,000/car. This may seem expensive, however keep in mind that this is the price based on an order for 10 battery packs. I expect that as the production is increased (Phoenix is set to produce 500 SUT's in 2007, and 6000 in 2008) the price of the batteries will drop quite a bit. If you think about the cost of gasoline over a 10 year period ($15,000 - $20,000 for most drives) vs the cost electricity (approx 1/4 the cost of gasoline), the extra cost of the batteries could be offset over time (once the price is down to say $20,000 for the batteries). Also keep in mind that electric cars have very few moving parts... because of this repair costs could be greatly reduced over the lifetime of the vehicle. Also there is no need for an oil change! There is also the reduction in CO emissions.. what is that worth to you? If your smart and offset power consumption with renewable energy (eg. Solar pannels on your garage roof) you can drive a Sun Powered Car! How cool is that :)

Cheers, Andrew

OK - Here are some other things to consider...

An Electric motor drive + batteries replace your Engine, Radiator, Starter, Alternator, Belts, Transmission, Fuel Injection, Lead/Acid Battery, Exhaust System/Catalytic Converter, etc. Is the resulting car going to be lighter or heavier? How will the car's lifetime compare to today's cars? What will ultimate cost be - higher or lower than today's cars?

Grid Drain / Charger Accessibility - Most recharging will be done overnight using 220V trickle chargers (6hrs @ 30 Amps), very accessible to all households.

Noise pollution/air pollution - what is the current cost per gas vehicle (per 100,000 km or mi) to the public purse? This will be paid back to EV owners in grants I suspect. Plus EV driving lanes and public charging centers (in downtown areas to encourage EVs there -see London England for example).

One more thing... don't forget to offset battery weight by the weight of gasoline in today's cars (assume 60% full on average).

I am all for an all electric ride but in my neck of the woods[Homer Alaska] would I need a axuliary wood heat system? or can these batteris provide juice for heat and defrost. what did Fred Flinsone use in his ride?

I just drove the Phoenix SUT today, nice ride, low center of gravity, handles like a sports car! Sounds like the key is the new nanosafe battery technology. It will be interesting to see where Phoenix and the car industry in general go with this and the improving tecjnologies. I think we will soon be able to electrify any car and order our features like we do now for our computers. Make mine a red Mini with 400 hp! CHEERS!

sure got a better picture on this car! Now that the price with the batteries is...$ 120,000 smackers for the first consumers... then the charger... one at home and one at the job... Hey what about in the cold winter and the hot summer stuck in traffic taking three or more hours to commute.... with the heater or ac on??? Have to have a back up system don't we??? Solar panels are out. still going to have to depend on gasoline??? Or you can not use the car for commuting! Just would be a high dollar toy!
Well I'm willing to take a chance in the stock market!

I have enjoyed many of the comments...however, questioning an electric vehicles ability to run heat or A/c in a 3 or 4 hour commute...causes me to question your sanity. If the electric vehicle is part of a better brighter world where ultimately life for everyone is improved...(which i believe it is ). Then you, and all those like you are squandering the greatest commodity of all...your time.
Time given to you by GOD to spend with your children, loved ones, volunteer in your community etc. etc.
High density living in areas that have become grossly congested is not environmental or socially wise. If an electric car facilitates stupidity in other aspects...what is the gain. Of course, this is written by a socially conservative, environmentally minded, god believing freak from Indiana. I think an electric car can add significantly to our quality of life...but don't forget all the aspects of quality in your life. Jeff

Alternano is traded on the NASDAQ under the symbol ALTI and closed today at $2.78 or thereabouts. I have read volumes about the need for relief of global warming, lessening emisions from passenger cars and the inherant health hazards they represent. I have not heard of any solution that makes more sense and is easier to implement than that presented by Phoenix Motorcars and Alternano.

Sounds like a good company to work for.
I'll let you know how it turns out

IF claims are true, this is game changing technology.

The first car of any given model that GM makes cost hundreds of millions of dollars. The price will come down with volume. Ask Henry Ford what a production line is. Original DVD players cost over $1000. Now you can get them for less than $75. In the mean time, I don't know about the rest of you, but I am tired of filling up my tank every week, knowing that the hard earned money I use to pay for the gas goes to people who want to use the money to make bombs to kill Americans. I'm all for alternatives.

What is size and weight of the 35KWHr pack?

Does the SUT and associated range numbers that are quoted include a regenerative braking system?

I can't afford prices like many of you have quoted. However, I purchased a Ford Escape Hybrid not because I could afford it but because I wanted it. If Altair can produce this type of battery in volume and Phoenix or any other vehicle maufacturer can put a car on the road that I can approach, I will buy it. Even if Altair can produce batteries that can be used in a battery agressive Hybrid, I will be interested. If we can't go to all electrics, we can at least go to plugin hybrids that get much better mileage than the current hybrids.

Perhaps a few charging lanes where a pig tail would touch an overhead conductor to charge the cars going down the interstate? Like an electric trolley car. That is an idea.

Yes, conductors that unfold and touch overhead cables suspended over the major interstates. The condictors would automatically fold down when not in use or when necessary due to road conditions. Very similar to the electric trains on the New Haven line in New York and Conn.

Cars would be all-electric or hybrids. The cables would power the car and recharge the batteries. Lane changes and local driving would be on battery powered electric motor and/or gas engine (hybrid).

Meters in each car would measure power consumption and relay the info wirelessly and automatically to stations for billing purposes.

Infrastructure would be an expensive undertaking but I think relatively cheap given the return. Aesthetics of overhead cables and supports shouldn't be a big concern on interstates.

Federal givernment would partner with car manufacturers and subsidize the development.

The Altair battery currently costs about $2.50 per watt- hour (due to the low volume production) or about $75K for the current 34 kwh battery pack used in the Phoenix. Altair says this cost is targeted to drop to around $.50 per watt-hour within the next 3 years as volume ramps up.

I would love to see Ford or Toyota convert a hybrid car like the Prius, Hybrid Camry or the Ford Escape to run with a 7 kwh battery pack (battery cost would be $3,500 @ 50 cents per watt hour) and change out the engine to a diesel capable of supporting the new biodiesel fuels. As a plug-in the hybrid the car could run up to 25 miles just on the Altair batteries and with the diesel back-up you could still take the car on a long trip. I'm guessing but I think the milage on my dream vehicle would easily top 150 mpg with a daily round trip drive of less than 50 miles.