I will believe that there is a 90 mpg Prius when I see one. That might have to do with talk about a plug Prius. If you get 45 mpg, but if half of the energy comes from batteries that you plug in, then it looks like you get 90 mpg. That is false accounting. A BTU is a BTU a killowatt hour is a killowatt hour, there is no changing the physics.

Please see calcars write up on the volt.felix Kramer is working with utilities and government agencies to try to speed its introduction to the fleet.

1. The 50mpg of the volt is AFTER you expend the 40 mile all electric range. Essentially you will get 90mpg if you only drive 90 miles before you recharge which is equivalent to the theoretical Prius.
2. Why is it that when someone speaks of saving a 1/2 pound of weight, and using less energy in the manufacture of a component someone thinks that the idea is garbage? It isn't good enough so you wouldn't do it at all? That line of thinking is garbage.
3. Typical glass on a compact is around 250lbs total. If they save 30-50% of the weight that is a 75-125 lb weight savings (34-57kg). The fenders would probably only save around 10-15 lbs (4.5-7kg).

BBM,
Regarding your comment that the Volt is designed to accept various removable "electrical generators" as range extender, any genset can be designed to have the engine torque clutched to the engine when it is desirable, and still can be removable.

Just drop the genset into a rail or groove on one side of the engine compartment, while the electric motor sits opposite to the genset. A hydraulic or mechanical mechanism can be designed to move a clutch plate (splined to the engine shaft) a short distance from the engine to the clutch plate of the motor for reversible torque coupling of the engine to the motor. At rest, the engine is not coupled to the motor,so the entire genset can be removed. No gear whatsoever is needed to connect the engine to the motor, just direct drive via clutch plates.

Even a removable fuelcell genset can be used. The removable fuelcell genset would be of 30kw max power rating and has a 30kw motor built in to the genset to supplement the power of the 80kw motor. When this genset is dropped into the grove in the engine bay and secured, then the torque of the 30kw motor will be locked via a manual mechanism to the 80kw motor of the engine to give a total of 130 kw power output.

A turbine engine genset is not recommended due to the poor efficiency of the microturbine.

Since battery is heavy and expensive and costing ~$500-$1000 USD/kw, it is always good to have an engine costing $3000 onboard to assure that you won't get stranded when the battery is out of juice, not to mention saving of ~$10,000 from battery and electric component down-sizing, and saving of hundreds of lbs of vehicle weight! In winter, the engine or FC genset provides waste heat for cabin heating.

So in order to fit Roger's model, even fuel-cell gensets would require a motor of their own (duplication of motors, their expense and their gearing) just so that they could add torque to an undersized main motor.  And they'd be stuck with the form factor and mechanical arrangement of a soon-to-be-obsolete system, when electric motors are already much more powerful than engines while being cheaper.

C'mon, get real.

Maybe what Earl is refering to is this:

http://www.calcars.org/gm-phevs-faq.html

The author is a bit over the top about the government's role, given the supply side market types. But he does credit Dr. Andy Frank of U.C. Davis with being the father of the modern PHEV. I think that is correct.

Eng-Poet,
The 30kw motor in the FC genset is an additional souce of mechanical power to the wheel, and not a duplication. This additional power is entirely optional, not required for the functioning of the car. It is intended for those wanting more Vroom in their humdrum routine, or to satisfy the occasional "need for speed."

Face it, a PHEV is more economical to purchase than a pure BEV and do not suffer from the lack of range issue of a BEV. An ICE or FC genset can supply free waste heat for winter operation, or serve as an electrical backup for your home during a winter-storm power outage, which may last for weeks and cause a lot of suffering. It'll allow you to live normal life when your neighbors are freezing due to the lack of central heating, because the central heater is operated by electric motor. :)

The problem with weight reduction emerges when you consider collision with a heavier vehicle. Even if you light vehicle is quite strong, the energy from the larger mass vehicle is transferred to you in either crush or change of vector. Either way, the collision within the vehicle between you and your surroundings goes up. Say you get "T" boned and you are knocked over a cliff rather than remaining on the road if your vehicle was heavier. And there may be a safety connection between weight and velocity. Say under 40 MPH, decreasing the weight does not significantly affect stability, but over 60 MPH, you need to weigh at least 2500 lbs. I do not know if this is true, but it would not surprise me based on watching race cars go airborne.

Van,
Yes, your energy in a lighter composite vehicle will get changed into motion along a different vector. So? Read the "Pre-Astronauts" which talks about the ability of humans to survive high acceleration if properly restrained. John Paul Stapp led this work for Air Force jet pilot bailout. Watch some more of those races. The cars might fly up in the air in a wreck, but the drivers often walk away. How often do you drive that fast? How often do you drive next to a cliff? If you get "T" boned, then you will survive better in a carbon fiber vehicle than in a steel body vehicle. Carbon fiber is stronger than steel. That's why those race car drivers walk away. If cost can be reduced more, then lighter weight plastics or composites are better.

SJC
So you don't believe Toyota is going to get 90 mpg in the near future. Healthy sketicism. OK. I own a Prius and get close to 50 mpg in winter and closer to 55 in the summer, 50 to 55 mpg. This is because of my commute and driving habits. Most will get 45 to 50 mpg. I see this when in a hurry, with a lot of stop and start driving in town. My momentum is being converted to heat in the brakes because regenerative braking is not that strong. Also, the engine rpm audibly varies. These are sources of obvious inefficiences that are easier to improve in a Series PHEV. I said 70 mpg above. Lets be more conservative and say 60 mpg. That should be even easier to do. It's still better than 50 mpg!
As to the false accounting of using all-electric for the first 40 miles. Wind, nuclear, solar, wave, tidal, and geothermal are all dropping in price and can all provide clean energy. All except nuclear are renewable. Add to that studies that have shown PHEVs and EVs will be useful energy storage for intermittent renewables and you have an industrial revolution in the making. Wind is competitive with gas generated electricity now and still getting cheaper. Wave power will be cheaper than wind in some coastal areas. Solar will bypass both in the not too distant future.
http://www.alternet.org/story/45020/ (Good interview with Travis Bradford, author of “The Solar Revolution")
In the 1970s we got a good portion of our electricity from oil. In the last 30 years the oil part has changed over largely to natural gas and nuclear. In the next 30 we will be using more renewables and/or nuclear AND electricity will get cheaper. ...so...if we're driving a lot of PHEVs and EVs by then... You can help this happen faster, but you can't stop it. It is already happening. Is the Prius selling well? What about a lower cost PHEV with even better mpg? Stuff shot! Prius will become the space shuttle of hybrid technology. Wonderous in its' time, but no longer cost competitive with newer designs.

GM needs to get the "Volt" into production fast!

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simple :
1-use flat tire . save 50lbs (don't need spare tire any more ) and other stuff. and we have more space
2-use more plastic where don't need steel.

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