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Toyota More Than Doubles US Sales of Hybrids in May
1 June 2007
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| Toyota total US hybrid sales by month. Click to enlarge. |
Toyota posted record sales of hybrids in the US in May 2007, with 36,101 units sold, up 110% on an unadjusted basis (total units sold, not adjusted to a day sales rate) from May 2006. The increase is based entirely on sales of the Prius and Camry Hybrid.
The Prius posted 24,009 units sold—the model’s highest monthly sales yet and almost triple the figure from May 2006. This represents 66.5% of all Toyota hybrids sold in the month. The Camry Hybrid also set a sales record of 6,853 units in May, up 126% from May 2006. The Camry Hybrid has been on the market since April 2006.
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| Toyota hybrid sales by model. Click to enlarge. |
Other results for May included 3,312 Highlander Hybrids (down 12% from May 2006); 1,746 Lexus Rx 400h units (down 13% from May 2006); and 181 GS 450h units (down 38% from May 2006).
Overall, Toyota’s calendar-year-to-date US hybrid sales have totaled 119,154 units, an increase of 75% over the same period last year. Although GM doesn’t yet release its numbers, the combined hybrid sales from Toyota, Honda, Ford and Nissan already account for 45,095 units, which by themselves account for 2.9% of new vehicle sales in May—the highest percentage yet.
Totoal US light-duty vehicle sales increased 5% in May 2007 compared to the prior year, according to Autodata. Sales of passenger cars increased 6.1%, while sales of light-duty trucks increased 3.9%.
June 1, 2007 in Hybrids, Sales | Permalink | Comments (64) | TrackBack (0)
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Comments
GREAT
I think all 4 companies - Toyota, Honda, Ford & Nissan have broken
their previous records.
With this, Hybrids have gained more than 3 % market share, assuming
overall vehicle sales is around 1.4 million.
Prius 24,009
Camry-H 6,853
Highlander-H 3,312
RX400h 1,746
GS450h 181
Toyota Total 36,101
Civic-H 4,520
Accord-H 439
Honda Total 4,959
Escape-H 2,680
Mariner-H 534
Ford Total 3,214
Altima 821
Grand Total 45,095
Prius is #6 selling model among cars. Top-5 are
Camry
Corolla
Civic
Impala
Accord
and all but 1 of these vehicles are available in Hybrid
or flex fuel version. Alternative Fuelled Vehicles are gaining.
Another thing is GS430 which has same design as GS450h and V8 engine has sold only 8 units.
GS450h has taken the market share from GS430 and this model may be closed.
I guess it may be the same story between Camry Hybrid and Camry-V6.
Altima-H with V4 engine continues to lead ahead of Accord-H with V6 engine even though its sold only in 4 states.
Also the CUV's, CRV, Escape and RAV4 has taken the Top-3 slots among SUV sales.
Posted by: Max Reid | Jun 1, 2007 2:41:20 PM
Oh great! Why aren't Detroit automakers achieveing the same? Wait I know...because their "focus" is to build large useless SUVs...what a bunch of geniuses!
FS
Posted by: Fred | Jun 1, 2007 2:46:04 PM
Right, I believe Bob Lutsz has said making cars with high CAFE rating is too costly. They are waiting until 2012 to jump back in. Meanwhile they are allowed to make cars with low CAFE ratings.
Posted by: Energex42 | Jun 1, 2007 3:00:48 PM
Just think of the position GM would be in now with the MK4 Ev1
had the useless bu**ers not crushed them and cancelled the program.
Still I bet all the Gm management are awarding themselves record
bonuses this year !
Posted by: andrichrose | Jun 1, 2007 3:19:25 PM
Detroit is pushing their own version of the new CAFE regs. This version would make them exempt from CAFE increases as long as they offer flex-fuel versions of the same 14mpg vehicles. You can't make this stuff up.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070601/BUSINESS01/706010368/1014
Posted by: Planck | Jun 1, 2007 3:32:49 PM
I love Toyota. :)
Posted by: hampden wireless | Jun 1, 2007 3:44:44 PM
Planck, that's mind boggling. They just don't seem to realize that if they want to survive, they need to change their strategy and focus on the new market, not the 1998 market.
I mean, catering to the SUV market is perfectly fine, but if people don't want your products anymore, it might be time to change priorities to capture the new market.
What GM is doing is like a buggy maker pushing for lower taxes on horses if they eat one food instead of another. It's not the CAFE that's the problem, it's the fact that they're focusing on a sector who's time has passed for the foreseeable future and which is bleeding them dry because of collapsing sales.
Posted by: Aaron | Jun 1, 2007 4:07:16 PM
Aaron: Sure, laugh all you want, but when the US companies add humongous tail fins to the SUV's it will be a whole different story.
Posted by: Lou Grinzo | Jun 1, 2007 4:10:52 PM
GM's overall sales figures for May rose, with Saturn registering a year-over-year increase of 69%. GM rose overall as well. Some numbers over at Autoblog.
GM is doing something right with Saturn, that much is certain. I imagine the Aura is selling very well.
Posted by: Cervus | Jun 1, 2007 4:19:08 PM
Cervus. Agreed. The Aura is very nice and the Vue is too. Their new small car, here or due soon, looks good in specs and pictures.
I looked carefully at the Aura in January but bought a used car instead. I may buy something new when the 2008s are here.
There are some GM bright spots but on balance they have real problems in the US. But when you consider job security at Ford and Chrysler.....
I understand the Ford is profitable in the EU, and GM is doing extremely well in the booming Chinese market.
Posted by: K | Jun 1, 2007 6:13:26 PM
Here's a fun quote from Bob "The Putz" Lutz
GM executive Lutz argues critically acclaimed hybrid compacts like Toyota Prius are bad business.
Posted by: DS | Jun 1, 2007 6:35:34 PM
The US automakers are so in bed with big oil they will fight CAFE and anything else that has us consuming less gas. Thankfully the Japanese aren't completely in the same boat and can at least innovate to a greater degree. Cleaner more efficient technology has been with us for decades, big oil just has a lot of muscle to make sure it has to fight to see the light of day. So many great minds and ideas being crushed by those in charge. http://freeenergynews.com/ . Peace.
Posted by: chillo | Jun 1, 2007 6:38:44 PM
Hello DS
The article you sent belongs to 2004 (3 years ago). But things have changed and even Bob Lutz agrees that Hybrids are good business.
Even though GM sells Aura & Vue Hybrid, they dont disclose the #.
Gone were the days, when people said Hybrids were not mainstream. Now Prius outsells many longtime brands like Altima, Malibu, Sebring, etc.
I think Accord may be the next target for Prius to overtake.
Posted by: Max Reid | Jun 1, 2007 6:54:58 PM
All these days, automakers slept with big oil and got beaten when high gas prices took away their sales & profits.
They have split now, thats why Big-3 auto companies are concentrating on Flex fuel and Japanese Big-3 are concentrating on Hybrids.
Even oil companies like BP & Shell are working on Solar & Wind.
Another interesting fact here is that the CUV's are grabbing sales from SUV's. Many SUV's like Explorer, Sequoia, Trailblazer, Hummer-H2's sales are down.
Posted by: Max Reid | Jun 1, 2007 7:08:21 PM
The article you sent belongs to 2004
GM have been pissing on Hybrids and promoting the Fool-Cell BS since Toyota introduced the Prius in 1997.
They didn't suddenly see the light, this has been a deliberate effort to thwart any meanful increase in CAFE.
They do it because they admitted that they can't compete with Toyota & Honda.
BTW Aura & Vue are Hybrid in the same way that Madonna is a virgin.
Posted by: DS | Jun 1, 2007 7:36:41 PM
There is a silver lining here.
All Hybrids that had sales increase (Prius, Camry, Altima, Escape, Mariner, Civic) have V4 engines and the rest with V6 engines suffered sales declines.
Similarly many Toyota's models like Sequoia, 4-Runner, Sienna suffered sales declines though Tundra was an exception.
Posted by: Max Reid | Jun 1, 2007 7:51:48 PM
Papa don't preach ;)
Posted by: rhapsodyinglue | Jun 1, 2007 8:03:45 PM
DS a V4? As far as I know no such beast has ever been made. I4 and boxer4s are the only configuration I have ever seen or worked on. And as for the fools who mock the mild hybrids who cares, so long as increased milage is achieved.
Posted by: lou | Jun 1, 2007 11:01:04 PM
Saab had a Ford V4 in the early 70s...did not last long tho.
Posted by: sjc | Jun 1, 2007 11:33:23 PM
In england it was nicknamed the "boil up four"!
Posted by: andrichrose | Jun 2, 2007 12:43:59 AM
Max Reid:
" I guess it may be the same story between Camry Hybrid and Camry-V6."
Really? Wht are the numbers?
Posted by: TheGiant | Jun 2, 2007 5:44:06 AM
"The Prius posted 24,009 units sold"
1. too small, very little truck space.
2. mediocre MPGs
3. too heavy.
4. horrible 0-60, way under powered.
5. too expensive, buyers will never recover extra cost.
good points on prius:
1. is that it will limit family size.
2. no family trips can be taken using this car bc no space to carry luggage...
3. will save on a families carbon foot print bc they'll need to kill off .3 of their children...
way to go toyota!!!
Posted by: Majeasy | Jun 2, 2007 7:29:32 AM
Majeasy: unfortunately Consumers Reports screwed up when they did an article about the cost vs. the returns for hybrid cars and SUVs. When doing their calculations they included the additional up front cost and depreciation when calculating the costs of the car. Effectively counting the extra cost twice. That threw the calculations way off and lead to their splashing big headlines across their cover that hybrids don't pay for themselves. That's what everyone remembers. Not many people would notice the retraction they buried on page 10 in fine print. The calculations were also done before the price of gas went through the roof. Bottom line is that buyers do recover the extra cost under typical conditions, and very quickly if you're running a taxi.
Posted by: Neil | Jun 2, 2007 8:41:45 AM
Majeasy,
You think a Prius is too expensive? Not compared to GM's lite hybrids.
Posted by: John Schreiber | Jun 2, 2007 9:29:11 AM
If you could build in the year 2000 a car as big and more flexible as the Prius2 ( the Audi A2 1.2 is 390/1140 Liter and the Prius2 408/1210 ) and safe with better fuel usage ( 81 G CO2 / 100 KM against 104 for the Prius2 ) w i t h o u t Hybrid so where is the Progress in efficiency with Toyotas way of building Hybrids ???
C. Spangenberg
Posted by: C. Spangenberg | Jun 2, 2007 9:43:38 AM
. too small, very little truck [sic] space.
False.
2. mediocre MPGs
Yeah, 61 mpg in the city is "mediocre". You're right. Now hop in your Dodge Durango.
3. too heavy.
Lighter than most vehicles.
4. horrible 0-60, way under powered.
Blatant lie. 300 ft-lbs of torque and 0-60 times under 10 seconds.
5. too expensive, buyers will never recover extra cost.
Breakeven is at 102,728 miles, well within the useful lifetime of the vehicle.
This is all neglecting where the money goes. You prefer giving money to people who produce oil (and all the lovely consequences of that) as opposed to organizations that build technologies which make the world better.
Posted by: aba | Jun 2, 2007 9:44:37 AM
If you could build in the year 2000 a car as big and more flexible as the Prius2 ( the Audi A2 1.2 is 390/1140 Liter and the Prius2 408/1210 ) and safe with better fuel usage ( 81 G CO2 / 100 KM against 104 for the Prius2 ) w i t h o u t Hybrid so where is the Progress in efficiency with Toyotas way of building Hybrids ???
Comparing a little diesel car that never made it to the US market with a midsize car that can make it in the US (with its safety and emissions standards). It's much slower, too. Sounds like it was expensive as well. Apples and oranges.
Let's ignore the tailpipe (which is an odd thing to do on GREEN Car Congress), and look at specs. The Audi A2 diesel gets 4.2 L/100 km (56.0 MPG). The gas version gets 6.1 L/100 km (38.6 MPG). The Prius gets 4.3 L/100 km (54.7 MPG).
http://www.audiworld.com/model/a2/specs.shtml
http://www.toyota-europe.com/cars/new_cars/prius/specs.aspx
The emissions coefficient for gasoline is 19.564 lbs/gallon. For diesel, it's 22.384 lbs/gallon. So, CO2 emissions per 100 miles are 35.77 for the Prius, 39.97 for the A2 TDI, and 50.68 for the A2 gas.
The Prius hits Euro4 gas emission standards, compared to Euro3 for the A2 TDI. Consequently, the A2 TDI puts out 5-6 times the NOx, in addition to being more carbon intensive.
Posted by: aba | Jun 2, 2007 10:20:34 AM
The Audi A2 diesel is not 4,2 l/100 km, it's 3,0 l/100 km. It was called the "3 litre car".
Posted by: Starvid | Jun 2, 2007 11:21:26 AM
Aha. The 4,2 litres are for the Audi A2 1.4 TDI, while the 3,0 litres are for the Audi A2 1.2 TDI.
Posted by: Starvid | Jun 2, 2007 11:22:56 AM
The Audi A2 diesel is not 4,2 l/100 km, it's 3,0 l/100 km. It was called the "3 litre car".
Ah.
So why'd they stop selling it?
Posted by: aba | Jun 2, 2007 11:52:46 AM
Too expensive to produce , thats Audis line anyway,
It is a great little car all panels are aluminium over a
space frame,very strong and very light ,
In fact it is the perfect doner car for conversion
to BEV , has also very good aerodynamics , and a good sized
large free space under the boot floor for the batteries.
since audi stopped making them the prices secondhand
have fallen considerably, making them a good buy
Posted by: andrichrose | Jun 2, 2007 12:14:42 PM
My info regarding the prius come from an investigative report by the Penn and Teller show for Show Time Cable Cannels
1. too small, very little trunk space.
False.
True!!!!! there was not enough room for a husband and wife to take a single child to grandmothers house for a week-end....Have you ever taken a kid any where? you have to haul a lot of junk with a kid.
2. mediocre MPGs
Yeah, 61 mpg in the city is "mediocre". You're right. Now hop in your Dodge Durango.
Penn And Teller tested the mpgs and only got 41 mpg....
3. too heavy.
Lighter than most vehicles.
Prius is the heaviest in it's size class.....period...
4. horrible 0-60, way under powered.
Blatant lie. 300 ft-lbs of torque and 0-60 times under 10 seconds.
Penn and Teller tested the car and it took 18 to 20 seconds for it to get up to 60mph...(that's a lifetime if you are trying to pull out on some highways) test drive the car yourself it's a numero uno DOG!!!!
5. too expensive, buyers will never recover extra cost.
Breakeven is at 102,728 miles, well within the useful lifetime of the vehicle.
never a breakeven bc the car doesn't get 61 mpgs..
This is all neglecting where the money goes. You prefer giving money to people who produce oil (and all the lovely consequences of that) as opposed to organizations that build technologies which make the world better.
IRRELEVANT!!!!
Posted by: aba | Jun 2, 2007 9:44:37
Posted by: Majeasy | Jun 2, 2007 4:04:07 PM
Audi A2 1.2 liter 0-60mph: ~15 seconds
Prius 0-60mph: ~10 seconds
The MPG might be comparable but the performance is out of league.
Audi A2 was never intended for the mainstream like the Honda Insight. They were built on exotic materials.
Posted by: usbseawolf2000 | Jun 2, 2007 4:26:09 PM
Majeasy,
Check out the real owner video on real world driving road.
Fully loaded Prius accelerates uphill from 41mph to 65 mph in 7 seconds at 42Min:45Second. Be sure to look at the overall MPG at the end of the video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3823585124965059408
Posted by: usbseawolf2000 | Jun 2, 2007 4:35:05 PM
Psst, Majeasy: P&T is a comedy duo. You're welcome.
Posted by: richard schumacher | Jun 2, 2007 5:54:51 PM
My info regarding the prius come from an investigative report by the Penn and Teller show for Show Time Cable Cannels
LOL!! Are you kidding? My information comes from objective data. But your crackpot Heritage Foundation wannabe nutters know better than cold, hard, unbendable facts do. Ha! Gotta love it.
True!!!!! there was not enough room for a husband and wife to take a single child to grandmothers house for a week-end....Have you ever taken a kid any where? you have to haul a lot of junk with a kid.
Malarkey. They would have to be the world's tallest and fattest couple and baby for that to be true - and even then. It has more rear legroom than a Mercury Grand Marquis and the same amount of trunk space as a Ford Fusion. If someone's got so much crap for a "weekend at Grandma's" that it won't fit in a spacious vehicle, it's their lazy fault, not some car manufacturer's.
Penn And Teller tested the mpgs and only got 41 mpg....
They're full of crap. One data point is irrelevant, especially when it's produced by someone with a strong bias. Go to Greenhybrid or Fueleconomy.gov and look up real world numbers - they come in at 47 combined. Find me any non-hybrid on the MY07 market that even gets within 10 mpg of that.
Prius is the heaviest in it's size class.....period...
Oh, really? It's classified as "Midsize" by the EPA. Did the reliable Penn and Teller the Transportation Experts share that with you? Have you ever even been in a Prius? Here's some other vehicle's in its size class with their curb weights:
Honda Accord... 3,437
Toyota Camry... 3,428
Nissan Altima... 3,324
Benz E320... 3,860
Chevy Malibu... 3,476
Mazda 6... 3,395
Chrysler Sebring... 3,376
Ford Fusion... 3,280
VW Passat... 3,829
BMW 525i... 3,428
Saab 9-5... 3,470
Audi A6... 4,222
etc etc
Want to guess how many of those weigh less than the Prius? Zero. The Prius weighs 2,932 lbs -- less than a VW Golf, less than a VW Rabbit, less than a Nissan Sentra. There's a reason it gets such high mileage -- weight is one reason.
Penn and Teller didn't tell you all this?
==continued==
Posted by: aba | Jun 2, 2007 6:30:36 PM
Penn and Teller tested the car and it took 18 to 20 seconds for it to get up to 60mph...
Then they're both idiots and Penn needs to shed a ton or two off his fat behind. Motor Trend clocked it at 9.8 seconds. Penn's a New Yorker - probably doesn't drive enough to even figure out where the accelerator pedal is.
never a breakeven bc the car doesn't get 61 mpgs..
That's using 47 mpg as the assumption, smart guy. Try again.
IRRELEVANT
Where your money goes is irrelevant? Please cut me a check for your entire net worth, then.
Posted by: aba | Jun 2, 2007 6:33:11 PM
Why is it that nobody factors in reduced brake system maintenance when talking about hybrid savings. This could be as significant as gas for some people.
Posted by: Victor Barreto | Jun 2, 2007 7:58:55 PM
<"Psst, Majeasy: P&T is a comedy duo. You're welcome.
Posted by: richard schumacher | Jun 2, 2007 5:54:51 PM">
Clearly you have never seen P&T lastest on Show Time...
comedy is part of the show, but mostly it suggests how stupid and gullible some americans have become.
Prius owners fit that group....
Posted by: Majeasy | Jun 2, 2007 8:00:18 PM
i'm NOT suggesting anyone subscribe to SHOWTIME.
however if you what know what their show is about.
Click Penn & Teller
Posted by: Majeasy | Jun 2, 2007 8:43:05 PM
but mostly it suggests how stupid and gullible some americans have become.
That much is obvious. Just look at your comments on this thread.
Posted by: aba | Jun 2, 2007 9:16:49 PM
There is no question, the Prius can go from 0-60 in less then 10 seconds. This has been measured by many people.
The Prius does get its advertised mpg if you drive it properly just like most other cars. Most non hypermilers report 45+ mpg, most hypermilers can beat the EPA ratings by a good deal.
The Prius is easily big enough to take three full size people and a reasonable amount of stuff for a weekend. You have the fourth seat and the hatch area to store call kinds of stuff.
Posted by: hampden wireless | Jun 2, 2007 9:31:36 PM
Why if its such a bad car are the sales figures going through
the roof?
A friend of mine here in Italy has just bought one , and while
true its not quite big enough to move a troupe of circus elephants
around in , has done a number of long trips 700 miles plus ,with
two kids and the wife ,plus all the bags required for a week away,
and the car (Prius) returned 5.4 litres per 100 km , which is pretty
good by anyones standards,
I think that these days you find that there are many people out
there who find some sort of wharped pleasure from rubbishing
products that deep down they know to be good , the same thing
has always exsisted between the Apple and PC users . I have always
used Apple and yet my nieghbour insists they are rubbish prefering
the PC route , I have had my present Mac for 6 years with not one problem,
In that time he has replaced almost everything on his machine including
a hard disk crash where he lost 3 years photos, yet he still insists the
PC is better !
The Prius is a fine car and is also a fully integrated system , it does
not have many shortcomings , but I can understand why the Pc users
dont get it !
Posted by: andrichrose | Jun 2, 2007 11:02:58 PM
hi, sorry for my bad english, im spanish and live in japan with my wife, her parents has a second gen prius, i have drive it several times, the feeling is pretty different to all my previous cars, feels very gentle to drive it, the feeling of no noise or vibration when in electric mode very satisfaing, luxurius-like i would say.
what i mean is i dont know how good or bad is mpg or other specs, but when u are driving this car u really feel that u are driving a more evolved version of the idea of car, since i got my hand on the prius, normal cars seem to me like something from the past.
especially when i watch the cms of cars on the tv i realize that they dont have nothing to say in their ads, cause after all they just keeping selling the same car as 10 or 20 years ago, with diferent colors and designs.
here in japan there are many prius in the streets, and makes me feel good to see them around.
Posted by: juan | Jun 3, 2007 5:29:29 AM
OK, for the seemingly dim amongst us, here is some information:
Penn & Teller are entertainers and have an entertainment show. They are not experts, nor do they claim to be.
Because they are entertainers, they will do whatever is necessary to keep their names out there. See how a bunch of you (including me) are mentioning their names? No such thing as bad P.R. in showbiz.
So, if/when it comes out that they blatantly lied in their test, would there be any legal ramifications for them? Nope. They are not bound by any law. Toyota might choose to sue, but that would be a civil matter.
So, Penn & Teller are as reliable a source of information as Bozo the Clown. If you don't understand that now, you are at a serious disadvantage for living a long and happy life.
Now back to reality.
Posted by: Wanderer | Jun 3, 2007 8:30:37 AM
Wanderer,
for 5 seasons now this program has played.
your comments suggest you have never seen it...
toyota can't sue P&T bc they are only the reporters.
if you want bozo the clown info go to motor trend and all the mags that toyota has paid-off with their advertising...
consumers are fed a line of info and P&T only debunks it.... consumers are manipulated.... we all need to learn to think for ourselves....
if anybody does their own study, and they think that having two power trains in their vehicle makes sense to them.... than a hybrid is for them....
personally i think only one drive train is the way to go for me...
Posted by: Majeasy | Jun 3, 2007 9:12:06 AM
Oh my GHODDD!!!! Is it too late to trade back my Prius for the Jeep Cherokee?
Posted by: richard schumacher | Jun 3, 2007 9:29:09 AM
we all need to learn to think for ourselves....
Says a guy who blindly takes the word of a graduate of Clown College (no joke) on the issue of transporation and technology, and when confronted with the massive disconnect between the beliefs he absorbed from the Clown College graduate and actual reality, sticks his fingers deeper in his ears and yells even louder "This is the way it is!"
Posted by: aba | Jun 3, 2007 9:36:12 AM
please,
instead of, all of us making fools of ourselves...
read some common sense pro and con from some people who have actually seen the show and know what it is about:
P&T season finale: Environmental Hysteria
Posted by: Majeasy | Jun 3, 2007 9:51:14 AM
instead of, all of us making fools of ourselves...
Dude, you're doing a solo act on that count. Please address the facts presented which counter your beliefs. I thought you wanted to "think for yourself". Or is your adoration for the Clown College grad all that matters to you?
Posted by: aba | Jun 3, 2007 9:56:00 AM
aba,
i can supply you with links but if you can't use them i've wasted my time....
from the above link here is an edited comment:
"HYBRID CAR BULL
How can the Toyota Prius, et al be loved by environmentalists?
Each car has an 1800lb battery pack that is made of lead acid or nimh. Many of the cars will need to have the batteries replaced after 5-7 years. Toyota will sell about 180,000 Prius's in the US this year. (so, thats 1800lbs of lead-acid or nickel metal hydride times 180,000 each year!)
Maybe the batteries can be recycled! Yeah, more energy, more industrial waste, more cost. And what about the factories that produced them in the first place. Im thinking they are probably not on the Sierra clubs mailing list.
What happens when one of these batteries are cracked open in an accident? What about a fire? Nasty emissions im thinking.
There are many conventional cars that have ultra low emissions that come close or match the Prius in highway mileage. Most of them cost 5-10 grand less. You can burn a lot of gas for 5 grand (about 1666 gallons at 3 dollars a gallon) Almost anyone who buys a hybrid will not ever see any cost savings versus buying a very fuel efficient normal car.
Seems like a solution to a problem that brings a significant cost increase (even with federal and state tax credits that are getting smaller and smaller) and has a brand new set of environmental issues. "
aba do you want me to cut and paste for you?????????
Posted by: Majeasy | Jun 3, 2007 10:25:49 AM
Majeasy,
The car works and it is also very nice to drive, and because
of the fact it does need a starter motor or an alternater can be made
for a simillar price to a standard car , not the 6000 dollars or so extra
that those evil bu**ers over at GM would have you believe.
In America it was the oil companies that put your present
administration into office , and if they are able to turn governments,
to pay a few dollars to rubbish a product that may threaten their
way of life and their profits , would be just chicken feed
Posted by: andrichrose | Jun 3, 2007 10:50:30 AM
I think the correct weight is 180 lb not 1800 lb , but heh if
the circus act says it weighs 1800 lb then it must be true!
I will see if I can find you a link for the "flat earth society" they
need guys with your credentails!
Posted by: andrichrose | Jun 3, 2007 10:57:26 AM
Majeasy,
Thanks for re-enforcing my point. Since P&T cannot even be sued, then they truly have nothing to worry about with this attention grabbing stunt. I love these two guys, always have. But as tricksters, charlatans, magicians, etc... Not as sources of auto test information, let alone as sources for information on an entire auto technology segment.
I do not own a Prius. I own a diesel. But I know the Prius well as I have two family members who own them. Several key points P&T made were outright lies or specifically engineered to get a result which is not real world by any stretch of the imagination.
I guess it would only then be fair to compare the current Japanese sub culture who does everything they can to eek out 100+ mpg from their hybrids in stock configuration.
So let's sum up:
If the human race was to only purchase Prius' for the rest of time, then we would be operating at a loss compared to if we bought current efficient ICE vehicles for the rest of time.
As that is absurd, hybrid tech will advance, become PHEV, and ultimately evolve into full EV. Simple.
P&T, I love you, you get the simpletons to follow you without question.
Posted by: Wanderer | Jun 3, 2007 11:09:02 AM
i can supply you with links but if you can't use them i've wasted my time....
Let's review your claims, as unquestioningly absorbed from Mr. Clown College and regurgitated by you. Then we will compare it with cold, hard facts.
1) The Prius is not big enough for a couple and their kids to go to Grandma's for a weekend.
Facts: The Prius has more rear legroom than a Mercury Grand Marquis (known colloquially as a "boat") and the same trunk space as a Ford Fusion. If you doubt this, get out your tape measure and go find out.
2) The Prius goes 0-60 in 20 seconds.
Fact: It does it in half that amount of time. If you doubt it, go to a Toyota dealer, take a Prius for a test drive, then put your foot to the floor and clock how long it takes to hit 60.
3) The Prius is the heaviest car in its weight class.
Fact: It appears to be the lightest car in its weight class and lighter than many vehicles in the size class below it. This is not open to interpretation. Go put the vehicles on scales if you doubt it.
4) The Prius gets 41 mpg.
Fact: According to the 1,246 data points at Greenhybrid.com, the 327 data points at Fueleconomy.gov, and the new fuel economy ratings, the Prius gets 46-48 mpg. But I guess in your conspirational mindset, all 1,600 of those people are lying (super-lying, really, since many data points at Greenhybrid report things like 0.1 mpg for the Prius) and the Bush EPA is also in bed with Toyota in this grand scam. But Penn Jillette, who barely got out of high school, and whose post-secondary education consists of going to Clown College, who makes a living off of deceiving people, and who has a strong ideological axe to grind -- yes, he somehow has the corner on the real numbers.
5) The price premium doesn't pay for itself.
Fact: Real-world numbers show that a true hybrid fuel economy boost is slightly more than 40% over a conventional version. The accepted price premium is around $4,000, less the $800 tax credit. The price of gasoline nationally is $3.25/gallon. It is a simple matter of inputting those numbers and finding the simple payback distance to be around 100,000 miles, which is less than the expected vehicle lifespan. If you knew anything about finance, you would understand that that means it's worth spending the money upfront. You'll get it back. If you don't understand how this works, I'm not going to walk you through it. Maybe Clown College Boy will do a show on Finance 101.
6) Where one's money goes is irrelevant.
Fact: That is self-evidently false.
7) The battery pack is 1,800 pounds.
Fact: It weighs 117 pounds. You are off by a factor of 15.
------
To be honest, I have ecountered a large number of misinformed people in my day, but you are vying for the top spot. You're not just wrong, you're egregiously, grossly wrong -- on every single point of fact. The irony of you to keep bleating about "independent thinking" conflicting with your blind acceptance of the word of someone who is easily and thoroughly disproved is laughable, to be kind.
I'll let some other people clean up any residual garbage you may futilely try to pass.
Posted by: aba | Jun 3, 2007 11:21:57 AM
Why to these posts deteriorate into BS about half way through? If you do not have something constructive to say, take it elsewhere.
Posted by: sjc | Jun 3, 2007 12:40:17 PM
6 out of the last 7 vehicles i've purchased have been diesels.... 90% of the miles the diesels used were for business....
5 to 10 years from now the prius will be commonly laughed at as an overbuilt piece of junk....
evidently the links i provided don't work bc the posters haven't read any other points of view but their own. with out double checking i copied and pasted a comment from another poster.....he was wrong, i was wrong not for checking the weight of batteries....
i do hope all of you buy a prius, and all of you that already own one, congrats!!! you have made a great purchase in a throw away car...
i hate typing and i can't spell....
Posted by: Majeasy | Jun 3, 2007 4:55:37 PM
All cars become more expensive to operate as they wear out.
At some point it is cheaper to buy a new or slightly used one.
The sheer economic reality is what drives us back to the
showroom. Planned obsolence is what engineers and designers
put into the equation so that we can scrap the old heap
and get something that is more reliable amd efficient as it
becomes available. It is a cost/benefit ratio that works on
models of efficiency. Hang on to your rust bucket as long
as you can and you and your mechanic will become best friends as he
goes on to an early retirement.
Posted by: William | Jun 3, 2007 6:36:12 PM
Mike, are you going to post a more general all-manufacturer data roundup sometime this week like you've done in previous months?
...just curious!
Posted by: lensovet | Jun 3, 2007 7:28:23 PM
Thanks to Max Reid for taking the time in the first post to indicate the sales of the various hybrids. This article is good news, although the hybrid marketplace has a ways to go before they can be considered mainstream. I looked at the bottom line of 45,095 total hybrids sold, and compared that to 68,216 Chevrolet Full-size pick-ups sold alone, (that doesn't include Ford, Dodge, or even Toyota in that figure). Shoot, Toyota sold 17,727 Tundras along side of those 24,009 Prii this month! Does everyone see the gap here? Hybrids still have a long way to go, but I do see progress--and that is good.
Posted by: Schmeltz | Jun 5, 2007 5:38:01 AM
Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive, Full Hybrid System is by far the most advanced system available on the market. Honda and GM make hybrids that are a joke, in my humble opinion. I studied mechanics in college for several years, and my father was a master tech. I can tell you, when it comes to building cars that last, and building a Hybrid that is truly revolutionary, Toyota has no competition. And my next car will be able to be plugged in to my wall at home, regular electricity instead of regular gasoline. I hope Toyota stops waiting for GM to build their so called plug in hybrid, and I'm waiting for Toyota to build a car I can plug in, and believe me, I'll be one of their first customers. Come on Toyota, "Put a Plug On It"!
Posted by: Joseph M. | Jun 5, 2007 7:40:07 PM
Schmeltz
Thanks for the complement.
Prius is a single model which comes only with 4-doors as 5-seater with V4 engine, whereas
Chevy Silverado and Toyota Tundra comes multiple models as Regular Cab, Crew Cab, V6, V8 and also as 1500, 2500, 3500 ... etc
Just take 1 model and compare its sales with Prius.
In the 1st few years, less than 20 units of Prius were sold, now they are selling more than that in just 1 month and that too in 1 market (US).
Its #6 in car sales in May-2007. If gas prices continue to be like this, then it may even come to Top-3 spots.
Posted by: Max Reid | Jun 5, 2007 8:16:23 PM
Revised Tally.
47,096 units of Hybrids were sold.
1,831 units of Vue Hybrids were sold and
170 units of Aura Hybrids were sold.
http://www.hybridcars.com/market-dashboard/may07-us-sales.html
And thats 3.01 %. For the 1st time, Hybrids break past 3 % mark. This may be another record year.
GM has sold 2000 + Hybrids for the 1st time. Some die-hards here may jump and say that Vue & Aura are not Hybrids, but compared to the regular vehicles which has no regenerative energy capture method, those of GM were much better.
Celebrate.
Posted by: Max Reid | Jun 5, 2007 8:27:26 PM
I believe there is some logic to the idea that putting two drive systems in one vehicle may engender some redundancy costs. However, choo-choo trains no longer go "choo-choo" because they are series diesel electric hybrids and all the motive force comes from the electric motor. Non-nuclear submarines have been parallel hybrids for over a hundred years. I really want a full electric EV. Even if I have to change the battery after 100,000 miles I will make out because of the reduced maintenance. No oil changes, ring jobs, injector cleanings, air and gas filter replacements to pay for. I'll save my nickels and dimes for my new battery pack.
Down here in Texas we are already generating an appreciable and growing percentage of our electricity from wind power-because customers like me sign up for the constant price option which forces us to pay above market prices for wind generated electricity now, but guarantees that our price will not go up as fast as hydrocarbon generated juice. Considering the big fuel surcharge bump other customers are likely to get soon, I think the green program is a bargain in the long run. And when I get my electric runabout my gas station will be the receptacle in my garage.
Posted by: shiboleth | May 11, 2008 3:37:11 PM
