I did not bought the prius2 - instead i bought the ordinary 75 PS A2 gasoline version which even though got me ( with my style of driving ) better mpgs than the prius2. And two german DriverMagazines got also 6.6 and 6.8 L / 100 KM with the Prius2 under ordinary driving circumstances which ist not very remarkable here in Europe and is in line with my own experiences with the prius2 .

Way to skew the numbers once again, now that you're comparing gas to gas. How would you know what mileage you'd get with "your style of driving" with the Prius? And what authority do "two gernam DriverMagazines" have?

Take this A2, give it the same tailpipe emissions, make it have the same performance, give it the same safety standards, make it be the same size, and there is no way on God's green Earth it will get the same fuel mileage as a Prius, nor be priced the same (all aluminum is spendy). It can't even get it as-is, so you toss a diesel at it, ignoring criteria pollutants, then when you pull out the gas version, run screaming away from objective, comparable fuel economy numbers. You're trying to claim a vehicle rated at 38.6 mpg (6.1l/100km) is going to pull the same real-world numbers as one rated at 54.7 mpg (4.3l/100km).

There's a reason they don't make the A2 anymore. Quit crying over spilt milk. Honda stopped selling the Insight, too. Things happen because the market doesn't always respond the way our own little peculiar preferences may wish it would respond.

OK, I see the source of confusion now. The German sites (yes, I know German) tend to list cargo volume, and so for the Prius, the cargo volume with rear seats up/down is indeed 408/1210 liters. You listed those numbers as "interior volume" (whereas the Prius interior volume is actually 2724 l). I have not found a number like that for the A2, but it might be close to the Prius if you take the seats out (a nice feature, I must admit). It's strange that it gets labeled as a supermini.

So, yes, the A2 showed you could build a car with a big interior and with great efficiency, but from what I've read, it didn't sell well enough for them to continue it (or bring it to the US). So why are Prius sales going through the roof?
There are some significant differences:
1. The Prius weighs over 900 lbs more - that's bad for fuel efficiency but good when a big SUV crashes into you. That's (unfortunately) kind of important here in the US.
2. Smog forming emissions - the Prius classifies as PZEV (better than SULEV), whereas the 2006 TDIs are so dirty they don't even allow them into the US anymore. Even the new Bluemotion/Bluetec clean diesels that are coming to the US will still be dirtier than almost all gas cars. (However, of course CO2 is a big problem for the big cars sold in the US)
3) The Prius is several seconds faster 0-100 (i.e. 0-60) than the A2.

For all these reasons (and more), I still say you can't compare the Prius to an A2.
A better comparison would be Prius to Camry or 1.9 TDI Passat/Jetta/A4. Those are cars of similar size, weight, hp, etc.

Hi Anon there are different versions of the A2 . The one with 81 G CO2 / KM ( Priu2 104 G / KM ) has a Diesel Engine . I have bought the one with the gasoline engine , safe as the prius2 , about equal size and with my driving style better fuel usage as the prius2 and "Auto Motor Sport" and "Auto und Straßenverkehr" got about the same values as me .

I found out that the prius2 driving people drive very fuel conscious - so its not surprising they get lower values than ordinary drivers .

But the values prove you can get with a equal size nonhybridcar much better mpg than with toyotas prius2 : 81 G CO2 / KM with the Audi A2 1.2 against 104 G with the prius2 .

You cant deny that ! These are objective measured values !!!

C. Spangenberg

Revised Tally.

47,096 units of Hybrids were sold.
1,831 units of Vue Hybrids were sold and
170 units of Aura Hybrids were sold.

http://www.hybridcars.com/market-dashboard/may07-us-sales.html

And thats 3.01 %. For the 1st time, Hybrids break past 3 % mark. This may be another record year.

"The Prius weighs over 900 lbs more - that's bad for fuel efficiency but good when a big SUV crashes into you."

Hi Karkus weight alone ( from a heavy battery etc. ) doesnt gives you protection .

"The A2 proved itself to be a capable all-rounder. Its body withstood the frontal crash well, the passenger compartment suffering only minor deformation. The protection it gave in the side impact was also good." http://www.euroncap.com/tests/audi_a2_2002/111.aspx and its a year 2000 car .

But thats not the point here . The point here is that at the moment you can build a equal size nonhybrid car with much better mpg ( 81 for A2 1.2 versus 104 G / Km Prius2 ) than Toyota did with the Prius2.

N.

The

Putting it all together :

I think the future high mpg / low CO2 per KM Car is n o t the heavy Prius2 . It is a Audi A2 1.2 light weight car type with either a lightweight battery / fuel cell / or light weight hybrid componenent ( which at the moment doesnt yet exist ) or biofuel ice ( if the EROI of that fuel is good ). Aluminium may be part of the car because the energy ( Recycling included !! ) is much lower than for steel or a lightweight biological material or carbon what you use in racing bikes .

C. Spangenberg

Mr. Spangenberg,

The A2 is not "equal size" to the Prius by any stretch of the imagination. The liter volumes you quote (A2=1140, Prius=1210) are trunk space, aka boot space, luggage space, cargo space, etc. In other words, despite being a smaller car overall, the A2's rather odd shape gives it almost as much trunk space as the Prius. This is a notable achievement, but it does NOT mean the cars are equal size. The A2 actually had MORE trunk space than Audi's A3 and most versions of its A4. Does this make the A2 larger than those cars? Hardly.

The Prius has more passenger space and can carry more payload. The A2 is also MUCH slower than Prius, which is pretty borderline itself. This is not meant to criticize the A2 -- I'm a fan of aluminum. But it's not cheap and even with high gas prices most Europeans decided the cost outweighed the benefits. A car can't save much fuel if people don't buy it.

You might as well speak to the wall, Doggydog. The guy's a broken record.

Gasoline versus Diesel doesn’t much matter. Toyota’s HSD power split transmission is better than any conventional mechanical transmission. Manufacturers that use HSD (Toyota and their licensees) will have the market locked up until the advent of energy storage good enough to allow pure series hybrids or all-electric vehicles.

Hi doggydogworld for me a car is bigger if i get more lugagge into it ( example two bicycles upright in the A2 ) and besides the A2 is very quick on the Autobahn because of its aerodynamic .

But all of that is not the point you all do not see .

An about equal size car gets much better mpg ( 81 G CO2 / 104 ) without hybrid than the Prius2 with hybrid .

So Toyota could have got a better result without Hybrid if they had built the Prius like the Audi A2 1.2 . And if then they had put in a lightweight hybrid they could have beaten the Audi .

Why didnt they do that ?

That is the point !

C. Spangenberg

Pull the ICE out of the A2 and put in a 50kw ac electric motor
and a 25kwh battery in that deep well under the boot floor,
then you have got a seriously decent car! This car is crying
out for conversion , also you can pick up a good low milage
4 year old car for around 8k euro now!

"Gasoline versus Diesel doesn’t much matter. Toyota’s HSD power split transmission is better than any conventional mechanical transmission. Manufacturers that use HSD (Toyota and their licensees) will have the market locked up until the advent of energy storage good enough to allow pure series hybrids or all-electric vehicles."

You mean like the Toyota RAV4 EV, the GM EV-1, and the Ford Ranger EV?

That is some good news. As market penetration increases and economies of scale set in, it will be possible to expand hybrid technology to more and more vehicles. We're probably approaching the end of the early adopter phase and now they're entering the mainstream market.

It would be nice to see hybrid technology enter the SUV market. Even an increase from, say, 15 to 20 or 25 mpg on a given SUV would have a huge effect on fuel savings and CO2 emissions.

Edit that comment: More hybrids in the SUV market, since there are already some available as is.