mlhm5:

I fully agree with you. This sounds a lot like another PR job from one of the Big 3. Another cheap way to be in the news.

Wonder if Ford will run (again) to Toyota (or others) for the PHEV technology and batteries? It may be the best and quickiest way to make sure that the product will work properly.

Unknown poster:
Run to Toyota for what PHEV technology? Last I heard, they were backing off Lithium batteries. Do you know of a PHEV Toyota offered here and now today that the rest of us don't?

People make this all sound so easy. Everything is just a piece of cake...the Automakers are all just dragging their feet because they're miserable, and mean spirited, and like to kick puppies, blah blah blah. I'll say it again, the Automakers (that includes any and all Automakers) have so much riding on this stuff. It is extremely easy to armchair quarterback, (something of which I have been guilty of as well at times). If you just stop and consider the consequences of something that is a flop, maybe it will be realized of how paramount it is to get this right the first time.

schmeltz,

I have been waiting for some else to second my observations. Non engineeers think there is no problem to do anything. So it must be a conspiracy of evil somebodies or other.

(Leftists are generally stupid, else they would never swallow the consistent failure in over a 130 countries and century and half of failed socialism experiments that inevitably ruined those countries. All without a single success. Such dummies would presumeably continue to stick their hands in a fire to see if it is hot.)

Electrified Ground Transport is coming. Technically as a "Tour de Force" it is here already. But as an everyday reliable vehicle such is not yet the case.

More importantly, the economic transition to capital competiveness,(i.e. initial price), is still a work in progress. Operating competiveness is already in the hybrid favor. But their is no intrinsic engineering reason a hybrid Li-IOn hybrid drivetrain should be any more expensive than a conventional ICE drivetrain equipped with emission controls.

In the not so long run (3-5 years) such will not be the case either. Hybrids will then rapidly take their place as the predominant vehicle of choice. They will be cheaper in initial price and ceetainly in operating costs.

The coming collapse of Oil transportation demand will occur around 2020, in my estimation. The Statist socialists with their nationalized oil companies and the ME sheiks will start selling their oil for whatever they can get.

That will likely be the second rejuvenation of the conventional drivetrain. When fossil fuels prices plunge to a competitiveness $0.75 cents/gallon then there will likely be a short term revival of the classical ICE drivetrain.

Hybrids will then have to compete on reliability grounds as well, so a bad reliability image established by releasing immmature designs too early, would not help.

Anyone who begins a statement with “‘x’ group of people are generally stupid” really diminishes their credibility.

Those kind of ignorant, generalized blanket statements are the antithesis of the insightful and incisive commentary we respect and value.

Stan:

Honestly, Green Destiny is correct. This is coming from someone who is guilty of making similar statements a few months ago and who strongly dislikes socialism. I've realized that it really does not help one's arguments to add that kind of frothy political rhetoric. It seriously detracts from the substance of your posts.

Schmeltz: I'm not saying the companies are dragging their feet. I just don't think they have 10 years to get it perfect. If oil supplies don't force their hand, then competition will. (In that category I'd love to see companies like Tesla and Phoenix expand)

Stan: you're always good for a laugh, don't change.

GM, Ford and Chrysler need a consulting management group from Silicon Valley to show them how to get things moving fast. So far there is only one car company that has the moxie to take the plunge...Tesla.

Perhaps Ford and GM should follow Chrysler's lead and take the company private so they are not hamstrung by the requirements of Wall street to show a profit each quarter. A private, lean Ford would have a lot more room to maneuver and could move faster.

10 years to design, build, test and market a PHEV? I don't think so. Neither GM nor Ford have that amount of lead time. The first company that can mass market a reliable 75 mph, 150 mile battery range PHEV and/or BEV wins the game. Let's get on with it and quit screwing around with using ICEs as the primary drive power. "Electrify or Die!"

Well now I don't know about Ford. They're saying they'll have hydrogen vehicles in showrooms in 5 years.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070710/ford_hydrogen.html?.v=4

Those Jokers. I haven't heard of any major breakthroughs in hydrogen recently. Maybe they will be in showrooms, but they won't be in the streets until there's infrastructure. I wonder if there'll be a dual mode Excursion I can buy, so that I get to keep using lots of gas before I get a local hydrogen station. Will it still be under warranty I wonder?

Ford: Hurry up with the PHEV's! Edison: Help them out!

All the big three automakers do not want Plug in Veh. and great gas mileage. When the stockholders and big corporate heads owns both stocks and interest in oil and gas companies. If they had their way their big cars would get 3 miles to the gallon,that way they could make money on selling the cars and the consumption of the gas. Just like laser printers, printers are cheap, but the ink is costly.

Schmeltz:

I feel it's BS because plug-ins, even ESCAPE plug-ins have already been in the works and tested. See Hymotion for their conversion of the Escape. If Ford were serious, it would have a much more aggressive campaign like GM's Volt. 100 million spent. bi-weekly meetings. Numerous press releases.

"all twenty Escapes converted by 2009."

Two years to take 20 hybirds and convert to plugin. What am I missing here?

As the car market currently stands, absolutely NONE of the carmakers, even the import plates, sell a PHEV. NONE. NADA. ZILCH. Although, most of the big name manufacturers are working on some version of a PHEV however--just like Ford. I've re-read the article above, and am left with not taking to much stock in the time frames spoken of above. Mulally said 5-10 years. Everyone hears 10 years and thinks that the real message here is that the PHEV will NEVER come. I don't suspect that to be the case. I'm not trying to sound like an apologist for Ford, but I think with the serious efforts being demonstrated by GM and Toyota in the research of PHEV's, I don't think that this is going un-noticed by Ford and others. I just think they are going about this perhaps a little more quietly. Proof of this is the recent Hy-Series Edge, albeit a fuel cell vehicle, it still represents a competitor to the Volt in its architecture. And, its a fine example of PHEV design too. Now, it has to be determined if it meets the 3 main criteria I sighted in my previous post, i.e. reliability, durability, and cost.

Lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill here. I think 5-10 years is probably a CYA statement, and nothing more. I suspect Ford is quietly working on their own answer to the Volt, and will be ready to come forth with it around the same time frame too. Granted, Ford doesn't appear to be leading with this technology as GM and Toyota, it is not always the worst situation to be a follower either. Being a follower allows more time and opportunity to refine your own product and learn from others mistakes. Just my thoughts on this matter.

If you have trouble with Ford's timetable on the PHEV project then you should read the article posted on fuelcelltoday. I will paste it below.

Internal combustion hydrogen technology is being seen by Ford as a stepping stone towards vehicles powered by hydrogen fuel cells, it has been revealed.

According to Scott Staley, chief engineer of Ford's hydrogen and fuel cell technology department, fuel cell vehicle technology is not likely to be viable until 2015 at the earliest.

As a result, he expects vehicles powered by internal combustion hydrogen engines - such as the 30 E-450 Hydrogen shuttle buses currently being trialled by Ford across the US and Canada - to act as a 'bridge' until that time.

John Lapetz, the company's programme manager for the hydrogen buses - which are 13 per cent more fuel efficient than gasoline-powered equivalents - believes they are now "ready to be evaluated at the consumer level".

"The technology is there at a sufficient level, in the three-to-five year window, if all things were perfect, we could reasonably think this is a solution we could draw on," Mr Lapetz told the Canadian Press.

"We're not really talking about invention, that's the thing. We know how to manufacture this kind of technology in high volumes.

"It doesn't have the sizzle of a fuel cell, but it's got the streak of the meal," he added.

We already own a Prius. It's the biggest vehicle our family has ever owned. I would like a PHEV CAR. Not an SUV. Quit trying to shove excess tonnage at me.

I hardly believe that I'm alone. The low sales volumes of hybrid SUV's strongly suggest that the consumers who actually give a damn about gas mileage and buy hybrids also -- drum roll, please -- buy smaller vehicles, in order to save gas!

Why the US auto manufacturers persist in trying to mount fuel-saving technology in a package designed to appeal to people who don't care about wasting fuel is beyond me.