Correction: (Freddy) Tesla Motors has presold 560 Roadsters for $92,000+ a piece. It is true however, that they haven't delivered them yet. They say they are on track still for Q4 delivery, and a release date announcement has been rumored to be coming soon.

Word on the street is that Toyota will bring a plug-in version of the Prius to the US with the next model "update". (but no official announcement) With this announcement about Japan it looks like those rumors could be very true.

I think with our longer commutes in the US, customers would definitely like more miles of pure EV drive. I don't know if 8 will cut it. But if the Prius is sold essentially how it is now, with little price increase, customer may not notice any difference.

What would the range be at 50mph? 45mph?

This guy estimates 193.6 wh/mile @ 45 mph and 201.4 wh/mile @ 50 mph, under the conditions he describes.

The secondary battery is 2.6 kWh, so that makes for a range of 13-14 miles -- if the battery is fully drawn down, which I doubt they let happen. If it can only draw down to 40% of its full charge, that puts the range at those speeds at around 8 miles - same as the Toyota estimate.

The 10-15 test cycle (the basis for the range claim) runs a vehicle at speeds between 12 and 44 mph.

any progress along this road is more than welcome

No one noticed so far that this Plug-in Prius has another advantage over the current model: better performance. Due to the stronger batter, the maximum power has risen by almost 20% from 84 to 100 kW.

Well, probably no one is interested, it's GREENcarcongress after all....

It's the same 50 kW electric motor as before, it's the same 76 hp gas engine as before. No change in power.

There is a certain marketing award Toyota can claim for being first to introduce certified PHEV. And ALL HEV products are welcome additions to the global energy solution. Most trips to local stores, schools and neighbors are within the 8 mile range so it is a good first step.

The VOLT will come to market on time with a far greater range we hope, and it too will make a contribution. Pretty much all good.

This is a perfectly logical conservative design choice to make Prius plugin. Staying with NiMH is a necessity due to lengthy development and testing effort required for LiXxx chemistry to be certified for roads. Not to mention the existing production and other infrastructure that is in place, plus proven reliability. Given NiMH the range is limited unless much more space is allocated for additional packs.

Thus to keep it a general purpose car with a long range driving capability they could only manage a modest electric capacity increase. Again, no choice.

They would have to sacrifice the trunk, or even replace ICE engine with more packs. In that case you end up with a longer electric range, but limited space and/or range - specialized city only car design.

For instance, you replace ICE with more packs thus extending the range to say 50 miles = only for driving in town, commuting to work, shopping, etc. Now some people may still purchase such a car, but the market is much smaller for such a specialized car.

For a decent electric range we'll have to wait for LiXxxx batteries. However, as most people don't want big battery packs exploding under their seats :() there is a lot of testing and different issues that need to be worked out = needs more time.

So Toyota didn't really have much choice.

I think this is a reasonable compromise. It means you can go around corner to buy milk without ICE. You can drive short distances without ICE. Yet for longer distances you are using a smallish efficient ICE. Not gasoline free, but if it cuts gasoline consumption in half, then that is progress.

@db:

You are wrong. Look at the specs. The maximum power output is stated as being 100 kW. You can lookup the current maximum output of the Prius yourself.

The 50 kW electric motor in the Prius doesn't deliver that to not overload the battery.

I'm thrilled!!! With the number of drives each year that I take that are less than 8 miles, this car could easily cut my gas consumption in half. This better than anything we currently have!

g- I guess I'd be one of those who'd be happy to sacrifice trunk space for greater all electric range. I live in a city, have disposable income and want a full-dledged EV but the market isn't making such a thing. Your post makes me think having that sort of modular flexibility would be quite a coup for Toyota. If they allowed you to optionally attach an expensive NiMH battery array in the trunk that boosted electric range from 8 to say 24 miles, they would easily hit both the broad hybrid market as they have now, and allow the more adventuresome folks with the spare cash to pay out of pocket to the subsidize the EV technology. If on the other hand, Toyota's long term vision of a PHEV is something with 8 miles electric range, I think I'm going to cry :-)

Jim G
Good idea. For trips where more space is required, simply allow the customer to take out the battery. Better yet, establish a string of suppliers who would keep batteries charged and swap them as you head down the road. Use the same model as propane tanks where you just swap out the battery when a charge is needed.

Most of the time most of us don't need that extra trunk space.

Any PHEV announcment is a good announcement, so this is a good day. Still, it's remarkable how Toyota went from unassailable leader to laggard in just a few months. A bold stroke by GM and a dumb choice by Toyota/PEVE to use lithium-cobalt was all it took. Toyota is scrambling now, and this pathetic "Prius with two battery packs" test program is only a placeholder while they go back to the drawing board.

Toyota faces some interesting choices. HSD is an engine-dominant design, and NiMH isn't competitive on power/range/weight/cost. If not for the Volt this gradual, evolutionary approach would make sense for Toyota. But with GM threatening to leapfrog them it's clear they need to bring more to the table. Competition is good. Let's get Honda and Ford into the mix and watch the pace REALLY start to pick up!

You are wrong. Look at the specs. The maximum power output is stated as being 100 kW. You can lookup the current maximum output of the Prius yourself.

What it says is "Overall System Maximum Output". Electric and gas peak horsepower aren't strictly additive, since the curves are different. The gas engine is the same, the electric motor is the same, as I said. It hasn't changed the overall power of the vehicle.

You can see this from a much older post that mentions the "Combined System Net Power."

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/01/toyota_rolls_ou.html

Jim,
The Smart car is an example of a design for short distance driving, such as commute to work. It is much smaller, has a small diesel engine that is powerful enough for short trips. Space if sacrificied, but as you pointed out that is fine for in town driving.

Logistics of extra batteries for Prius would be difficult. The pack itself is not light, so you'd need some sort of lift. When outside of a vehicle they would still need to be maintained with a trickle charge. etc.

Still I agree that it would be a great option if I can fill the trunk with extra battery packs since most of the time it is empty anyway. I am just not sure about the actual design, how it would work.

"Toyota went from unassailable leader to laggard in just a few months"

Really? That is news to me. Let's see, Toyota sells a bunch of Prius hybrids every month and GM sells exactly zero, nil, nada. Gee, seems Toyota is still the leader.

As much as I want Volt to be a success and put pressure on Toyota to advance its designs, the FACT is that Volt is still in the labs and not available for sale anywhere. Also, until Volt does start selling and establishes several years of reliable service and no major problems like Prius has, it cannot challenge Prius.

Toyota is still in the drivers seat and it is others trying to catch up.

Just to point out, if the pure electric range is 8 miles, then we're only talking about a 4 mile trip up and a 4 mile trip back. So while an encouraging development, this is very much a baby step indeed. as for what this baby step is worth, probably not much for most Americans. Assuming the average gallon of gas costs $2.95 (current as of today), with a generous estimate of 55 mpg fuel efficiency for the plug-in prius, that means that the plug-in version saves 43 cents over a non-plug in version for that 8 mile all-electric trip ((8/55) *$2.95). You'd have to go on 2,325 8-mile trips (or one 8-mile trip every day for 6 years and 4 months straight) in order to recoup a $1000 premium. And this analysis assumes that once the all-electric portion of the trip is over, the fuel efficiency for the rest of the trip does not decrease, which it might. So yes, we're talking micro-baby steps here. But still, an encouraging evolutionary development.

...and, of course, the above analysis does not factor in the cost of electricity to charge the car for that all-electric 8 mile trip...

Just to point out, if the pure electric range is 8 miles, then we're only talking about a 4 mile trip up and a 4 mile trip back. So while an encouraging development, this is very much a baby step indeed.

That's longer than my commute. That's about the length of my neighbor's commute. For my neighbor, going all-electric for his commute would bump the 46 mpg of a Prius up to about 70 mpg and reduce CO2 emissions by about 170 pounds (saved gasoline emissions minus increased emissions from electric power generation).

Not bad if they can make it affordable.

g-

That's a good point about the weight/inconvenience issue. But I think they should try it anyway, or set up an approved standard interface whereby others can develop something for hobbyist suppliers to plug into it. I guess I'd model this on how the consumer electronics and computing industry works, where you plug in a printer, new PCI cards, or a slingbox or a DSL modem or whatever. Part of the impediment to this kind of thinking for an automaker probably relates to scale, part to engineering it with regard to regulation/safety, but I think by far the largest part of it is just the fact that it's not done that way right now. I wish at least one automaker would try and approach problems in a modular kind of way. A hip niche brand like Jeep or Saturn could pull that off, I'm convinced.

With regard to the diesel Smart, that's wonderful, but at the same time I still want an EV so I don't have to use the tailpipe.

..and, of course, the above analysis does not factor in the cost of electricity to charge the car for that all-electric 8 mile trip...

Factor that in, and the payback period is 133,000 miles for a price premium of $1,000. I guess it all depends on battery durability (and the assumed price premium) as to whether this makes economic sense.

Of course, cars are economically irrational generally (anyone ever do calculations about the payback period of spinning rims?) and there are obviously other things to consider, like better air quality, lower CO2 emissions, less dependence on oil, and pushing a promising technology forward.

Jim,
Come to think of it, I am sure other companies will provide simple and cheap modifications to add a socket for additional battery packs in the trunk. I wouldn't be surprised if it became widely available soon after new Prius is introduced.

"Electric and gas peak horsepower aren't strictly additive, since the curves are different. The gas engine is the same, the electric motor is the same, as I said. It hasn't changed the overall power of the vehicle."

The performance will be better because the battery power is about twice now. In a normal Prius, the battery provides 21kW to the 50kW motor(MG2). Now, you have 44kW going to the 50kW motor. You can say the PHEV Prius now fully utilize the big motor.

The peak power for PHEV Prius is now 136hp instead of 110hp simply because MG2 contribute more with the juice from the extra pack.

Jim G.,

The auto industry can't adopt the computer industry model of modular components because of liability. Small companies making power accessories have no liability because they have no money. So the liability reverts back to the OEM with deep pockets. Yes, it inhibits some innovation and makes auto manufacturers cautious. But it is good for public safety.

A lot of people seem to be worried about "recouping" money for a hybrid vehicle. Even though a 25,000$ plug in is 10 grand cheaper than a 35 grand suv/pickup. So when you are telling your grandchildren why they don't have fresh water, no polar ice caps, huge hurricanes, and have to drive an SUV on $10 dollar a gallon. tell them you just couldn't see yourself driving a fuel efficient vehicle because it cost a little more. hey, who cares about the future---you want benefits without sacrifice. my children will be driving an electric vehicle powered by the array on my roof.

I see the 8 mile range as the way to go. It may mean all the miles driven below 30 mph are electic.

Nobody mentioned about the increase performance for the regenerative braking. PHEV Prius will be able to capture twice more energy at twice the rate (hard braking).