Elliot,

aha, maybe you would be interested in a Tesla Roadsters?

The interesting thing here is separating peoples commute from their perception of self image as reinforced by their car, I would love everybody to have a work car and a play car, because the play car only gets used for a small percentage of the time, therefore the overall fuel consumption goes down significantly, this car hopes to bridge that divide (between fun and utility)

Couple of other points:

1. Do you really know what 0-60 in 4 seconds feels like , it is not normal it is very exceptional
2. Do you know what driving at over 100mph is like, I suspect most people have, but when was the last time?

These 2 criteria drive our car buying habits, and should not, because they are largely irrelevant

aha, maybe you would be interested in a Tesla Roadsters?

Great idea! Throw away the cost of some houses on a 2-seater with a 200 mile range and 5 hour recharge time. Very good use of money!

I wonder how they got to the 78 g/km CO2 emissions. According to my calculations at 3.4 l/100 km (diesel) you get aroung 92 g/km CO2 emissions.

You're right, they mistakenly used the emissions coefficient for gasoline, not diesel.

jack,

If Elliot wants a sports car he is going to get a sports car, much better it be a tesla over a ferrari.

If Elliot wants a sports car he is going to get a sports car

Really, Benji? I thought the government controlled those decisions. Thanks for enlightening us all, as always.

much better it be a tesla over a ferrari.

Why? Oh, and false dilemma again.

Jake

When did I say the government controls those decisions?
And it was his argument for acceleration and performance being inadequate in a BEV or HEV, I suggested to him a BEV with great performance, It not a false dilemma.

When did I say the government controls those decisions?

You didn't. I was merely responding to one of your totally obvious declarations with sarcasm.

And it was his argument for acceleration and performance being inadequate in a BEV or HEV, I suggested to him a BEV with great performance, It not a false dilemma.

"The informal fallacy of false dilemma—also known as false choice, false dichotomy, falsified dilemma, fallacy of the excluded middle, black and white thinking, false correlative, either/or fallacy, and bifurcation—involves a situation in which two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options, when in reality there exist one or more other options which have not been considered."

Stay down.

I would love a Tesla, but it's out of my price range for the moment. None the less, I will likely buy one when the money comes in (by then it should be improved or have failed, or maybe a Whitestar) or maybe the cheaper Volt if it's enjoyable.

The thing is that most people don't buy white knuckle, extreme performance sports cars like I want to own, a lot of them buy 200-250 hp v6 Accord, Camrys and Maximas. There's adequate space, enough power to deal with a wide range of traffic conditions, to get out of danger if the need be. To go over a little debris if there's a storm. Even lower powered cars such as the civic or corolla out perform this, and they look a lot better. Maybe these aren't works of art, but at least they're not embarrassing to be seen in.

I like the diesel hybrid concept, but for the US I'd like something faster. I could easily argue that I need something faster because I do, not every day but for rainy days. I also like the fewer parts concept, just not the execution, then again I'm not French, maybe they dig this.

@ Kevin H - I have also learned that a work car and a play car are a good idea. I've gone as fast as you describe and yeah, it's not for everyday use. With ICE you also get into reliability issues. People shouldn't base their buying decisions on how fast its top speed is, although it should be at least 100+ in my view to get those people on board, but how it can maneuver in high speed, aggressive, somewhat heavy traffic as happens every day in places like Dallas.

All a vehicle needs to do is be able to reach highway speeds at the end of the ramp. Anything beyond that is superfluous.

Jack,

I still don't see the false dilemma in my arguement with elliot, he wants perfromance, I said its technically avaiable, that not even an arguement so I don't know how you can call a fallacy on it.

I still don't see the false dilemma in my arguement with elliot

There are more than two high-speed vehicles in the world. Study the meaning, then figure out why it's being said.

and how many of them are BEV or HEV? He want efficiency and environmentally friendly with performance, I provided an example of both, that not even an argument.

Seriously, how dense are you?

and how many of them are BEV or HEV? He want efficiency and environmentally friendly with performance, I provided an example of both, that not even an argument.

You provided ONE alternative (a Ferrari). There are plenty of fast vehicles which get better mileage and cost far less than a Ferrari. Textbook false dilemma.

and are any of them BEV or HEV?, and if they are guess what that a option for elliot were he can have his cake and eat it too. I wasn't stating an argument so you can't say it was a fallacy, look up "argument form".

" I wasn't stating an argument so you can't say it was a fallacy"

cf.

"If Elliot wants a sports car he is going to get a sports car, much better it be a tesla over a ferrari."

Premise? Conclusion?

Premise? Conclusion?

Get a girlfriend, kid. Then maybe the last word won't be so vital to you, nor will endless meaningless exchanges.

Last word is yours, as usual.

Nothing is stopping you from having the last word, but if this is your way of conceding then I accept your surrender. :P

Yes I'd like to have my cake and eat it, too.

I think that a little more perfomance than just getting up to highway speeds is useful from an accident avoidance perspective. I feel one should be able to change speeds quickly. Like if traffic is doing about 70 and there's a large semi, or series of semi's, that you need to get by... it's better to do that quickly since driving along side of those is unsafe. Or if there's a drunk driver around, swerving all over the place, one could see merit in stopping completely or getting way ahead to avoid trouble depending on the behavior.

Anyway, there's plenty of cars that lack the speed I think should be standard on the road today. Just my point of view, and I know what I'll buy and what I won't, and that I'm not the only one.

Exhaust emissioms have been proven over and over again to be cancerous,but europe continues to embrace them because of fuel costs in their lovely socialistic society
What rock did you crawl out from under?
Even a quick Google will show that the socialist French ranks #1 for health.
The US ranks.............#37.
World Health Organization's ranking
of the world's health systems.

What might be needed now is lower freeway speeds again. There were some cars built with speedometers that did not get above 60. Not many people realize that it was the high energy prices that killed the economy by draining massive amounts of money out of it because speculators not users were allowed to bid on crude oil prices. ..HG..

Ken from Gold Coast Australia: I currently have a Citroen C4 SX HDI 1.6 Litre with an EGS Semi Automatic Transmission. The 1.6 Diesel is very flexible in it operation with the EGS Transmission and returns on a trip 72.25 MPG which is fantastic. There is still 5 liters in the 60 liter tank. The Citroen C4 HDI with EGS weighs in at 1,293 KG. To me the C-Cactus at only 1,305 KG Citroen have done a fantastic job of adding the Electric Motor and Batteries for only 13 KG. In the case of the Honda Hybrid it is around 197 Kg heavier than the normal petrol engine and around $ 14,000.00 more expensive than the equivelent petrol engine. Citroen are hoping to sell the C-Cactus at the same price as the current C4 HDI with ERG transmision in Australia $ 32,000.00. This will be fantastic and with the fuel economy of around 90 MPG will be a big sellar here in Australia. The new low content Diesel fuel arrived here in Australia in February 2008 and has had a resounding effect on the incresed sale of Diesel cars here in Australia even though the price of Petrol is $ 0.95 cents per litre for unleaded and Diesel is
$ 1.17 per litre.

Bring on the Citroen C4 C-Cactus I will sign up as soon as they are available.

Ken from the Gold Coast Australia