knock the frontal surface area down a good bit, lower the weight and make the whole thing a "micro-van" like the Mazda5. I guess they only feel there is a market for such a vehicle in Japan.

Someone drive a minivan with their FAMILY in it at 80-90 mph on the highway. Brother, you've got deeper problems then 244hp. Here's a clue: you are ALL DEAD in a crash.

244 is INSANE. If you need 244 to merge into highway traffic You Don't Know How To DRIVE. It's FOOLS like you that make getting a Fuel Efficient Van IMPOSSIBLE.

"I like Thomas Friedman's idea of a Patriot Tax..."

I have supported an oil import fee ever since the term was first used in the 1970s. At that time, we imported about 30% or our oil and now we are nearing 70% imported.

Well you read it in a post from June and posted in September.

Yes, I just acknowledged that.

Forgive me for thinking that someone who is so superior that they have "never lost an argument on the internet"

You're now quoting a troll who takes my name? Great argument there.

I guess your selective memory also forgot that I use the Avalanche at my Company.

I could care less what you use, really, but the fact that you drive a fugly vehicle like the Avalanche and think some POS Nissan is "sexy" pretty much speaks for itself when deciding whether you're capable of making proper aesthetic judgments.

Nick:

On you last point I'll especially agree. I also found that Alaska was the one place I've driven which justified a real SUV. While the main routes were paved and do-able in a normal car (a Korean compact, in my case), there were some unpaved roads I took that would have eaten a sedan alive. As I was based out of Fairbanks, I drove on those a fair bit in a rented Ford Explorer. Stunning scenery.

I agree with most of you, 244hp is overkill. My first Mustang had 150hp (v6). For the weight 190hp would be normal (not just acceptable) and people would buy it with even less. Make different engine OPTIONS so people can pick like Dodge does. I had a 1997 Dodge caravan that was rated at 29 highway and routinely got 32.

I had a 1997 Dodge caravan that was rated at 29 highway and routinely got 32.

It was rated 25 on the highway.

I wholly agree with everyone that 240 hp is way overpowered for a family vehicle.

A 1978 carburetted Chevrolet Caprice Classic station wagon that can seat 8 with a curb weight of 4500-5000 lbs had only 170 hp out of the 5.7 liter V8 with only a 3-speed Hydramatic transmission. This vehicle sure felt real fast in its days with 0-60 at 12 seconds, beating most imports of the time! It can pull large U-haul trailers for 12-hr drives cross country without missing a beat. (Chevrolet was the heart beat of America back then!) I can vaguely remember that it averaged about ~18 mpg hwy and 13 mpg city, not bad for a 4-barrel-carburetor.

Now, with a 5-speed automatic transmission, a 2.4 liter I-4 engine with ~150 hp ought to be sufficient for the new Odyssey. The more gear ratios should make it outperform the 1978 Caprice Classic, even at towing large trailers with a towing package installed, with large radiator, piston oil cooling, and transmission fluid cooler. With this smaller engine and tall final gear ratio with quick downshift capability, it should be able to make 30 mpg hwy at least, instead of the pitiful 23 mpg.
A lot of weight can be saved with this small engine and a roomier engine bay would be much easier to service.

Longer crush zone will be available in front of the driver using a slimmer I-4 instead of V-6, making the vehicle much safer in case of a frontal collision, which is responsible for 40-50% of all traffic fatalities.
Where is Ralph Nader now when we need him the most? Saving petroleum is saving lives and saving our country and saving the world!

Roger, the 150 HP, 2.4 liter engine you propose for the Odyssey could provide very good performance in combination with a 6 or 7 speed DCT transmission.

Good idea, Jorge.

SJC,

Is your conclusion that we should or shouldn't raise gas taxes?

An oil import fee would be a "drain America first" policy. We did that for decades (oil depletion allowance). And if you raise the price of the imported product you raise the value of domestic production, thus giving a windfall profit to domestic oil producers.

Unfortunately, the best policy (IMHO) of raising the price to the consumer isn't politically viable because the consumer is also the voter. The voter always wants somebody else to pay.

I wonder how hard it would be to make a hybrid minivan with an all-electric range of say 15-20 miles sourced from some sort of slide-out, under vehicle battery tray? Add plug-in capabilities to boot. Thinking about some of the demographics, many families that purchase these are in suburbs, often relatively nearby to schools, malls, and other venues. An all-electric range of 15-20 miles (I don't think that would be obnoxious to ask) would do a lot to conserve fuel. Any car companies listening out there?

Really, really disappointing mileage ratings. Our 1999 Grand Caravan gets 17/25 actual and has plenty of power for our needs. So apparently Honda thinks it's more important to impress the horse power aficionados than to make a more economical vehicle. One can only hope the market will disagree.

Really, really disappointing mileage ratings. Our 1999 Grand Caravan gets 17/25 actual and has plenty of power for our needs. So apparently Honda thinks it's more important to impress the horse power aficionados than to make a more economical vehicle. One can only hope the market will disagree.

According to the EPA, the Caravan with the highest fuel economy is rated 18/24/20 with a 150 hp/167 ft-lb of torque 4 cylinder engine. By contrast, this new Odyssey 91 more horsepower, 75 more ft-lbs of torque, and 2 more cylinders, yet gets 1 more mpg on the highway and the same combined fuel economy as your Dodge.

To give even more context, Dodge's biggest Caravan engine that year was a 3.8 liter V6 with 61 fewer horsepower than this Odyssey and essentially the same torque. Its fuel economy rating is 15/22/18.

Ain't technology grand?

"with the highest fuel economy in 1999"

Honda plans to use V6 CDI engine on minivan and Pilot/MDX. Whoever will use Diesel engine first - in the minivan segment will be a big winner. Also first Sedona/Veracruz may use V6 CDI engine. I count on Chrysler too!

yeah, a 2.5 to 3L diesel engine in that minivan would be nice

I think the first Honda V-6 turbodiesels will show up on the Honda Ridgeline pickup truck, probably by 2009 as 2010 models.

I like it!!