Laura,

Alain has already made my main point, which is that nothing you said was topical.

To whatever extent your long list of complaints is true (some are better put and more tenable than others), they do not address the point at hand, which is whether the production of biofuels promotes world hunger. To the extent that Henrik, before me, endorsed existing biofuels as a mere stepping stone to better fuels, implies that he shares concerns similar to the ones you raised, and does not need to be hit over the head with these points. My post was more narrowly confined to the topic of biofuels and hunger, and how you made the leap from 'biofuels don't cause starvation' (my statement) to 'biofuels are great' (what you claimed I said) is beyond my ken.

While it is not wrong to bring up semi-tangential topics that are related to the subject matter of the post (i.e.: 'We're talking about biofuels, so why don't I unload about how bad ethanol is.'), it is very impolite to segue to such a discussion by calling previous posters bad names ("stupid," "lobbyist," "offensive," "cynical") while attributing opinions to them that they simply have not expressed.

Finally, I would like to address one other point you made above (#24, I believe). While I wish to make no comment about the emissions connected with burning ethanol in bulk (you can talk to the Brazilians -- who are not all dead yet -- about that), I would like to point out that 10% ethanol blends are critical to improving air quality in smog-prone regions, now that MTBE is no longer used. I would not want to see those go. You are doubtlessly right, though, that we should scrap the general ethanol subsidies and tariffs, and just import what we need from Brazil.

==I would like to point out that 10% ethanol blends are critical to improving air quality in smog-prone regions, now that MTBE is no longer used.==

I would like to point out that Ethanol actually increases smog, ozone, formaldehyde, and VOCs.
http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol9
http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol2
http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol3

And an ethanol production facility emits 250% the amount of criteria air pollutants as a toxic chemical manufacturing plant.
http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol5

I would also like to point out that the federal law that used to require Ethanol or MBTE is no longer on the books. Largely in part by California filing a lawsuit to allow for them not to use it because it caused too much smog.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/02/epa_drops_oxyge.html

If you think BioFuels don't disrupt food markets, then you just aren't paying attention to them at a global scale.

http://greyfalcon.net/grocerybill.png

Blah
Then you factor in that it takes the food supply that would feed someone for a year to fill up one tank of ethanol.
http://greyfalcon.net/grocerybill.png

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Furthermore, you also have the domino effect caused by removing food production from one location.

That it ends up popping up in the least cost regions of the world. Which generally means the tropics. (Brazil, Argentina, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc)
http://greyfalcon.net/soy2
http://greyfalcon.net/ran
http://greyfalcon.net/tropics
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Then you get into the massive water and water quality issues associated with biofuels production.

(An issue even more life threatening than food shortages)

http://greyfalcon.net/ethanol6
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/10/national-resear.html
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/10/iwmi-report-con.html

_

So if you honestly believe that dealing with global warming is priority #1, and you apparently care about the welfare of those who have the least ability to adapt to rising food costs.

I can't understand how you would support biofuels.

Chill, Linkboy.

After selling nearly 6 billion gallons of Ethanol, the gas prices are selling at 2.80 + / gallon, without this Ethanol, gas prices will be somewhere in 3.2 a gallon range.

Pretty soon, we will start using cellulosic Ethanol which uses agro waste, and after sometime, genetically modified products will start yielding better output.

If we really want to cut Bio-fuel use, we better start buying smaller vehicles.

Uhm you think we'd have it cheaper if we didn't get Ethanol?

I doubt it.
We still pay taxes.
http://greyfalcon.net/biotaxes.png
http://greyfalcon.net/truecostofethanol.png

Whats more, one gallon of ethanol only gets about 70% the mileage of gasoline. So we're really talking about $3.64 a gallon-of-gasoline-equivalent.

$3.20 a gallon is actually a pretty good alternative to that.

_____

Furthermore, what is "agro-waste", and why should soil mining be considered "sustainable"?
http://greyfalcon.net/peaksoil
http://venturebeat.com/2006/11/05/why-cellulosic-ethanol-will-not-save-us/

People seem to have this strange concept that topsoil has the same nutrient value as astroturf, and that you are merely adding water and "mysteriously produced" fertilizer to it.

And that any soil is as good as the next.

Not really considering that it takes 500 years to form topsoil.

The cost of E85 is $2.99 / gallon of gasolene equivalent,
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/

which is only 15 cents more than regular gasolene.

Its high time, all officials of UN and other environmental agencies start driving Hybrids like Prius.

@ greyfalcon:
I totally disagree with your "500 years to form topsoil" statement. Read Faulkner's "Plowman's Folly" and you will learn more about soil fertility than ADM knows at present. I can't give you a link as the book was written in 1943.

The idea of using all the biomass produced on a given plot of land is a bad idea though. Green manure crops will have to be rotated in between any energy crops. There are herbicide free methods of no-till farming that work pretty well.

That said, we in the West burn entirely too much fuel.

What amazes me is the fact that nobody addresses the question as to why African countries don't produce enough food for themselves.

The majority of Sub-Saharan African countries should be major food exporters. (Zambia alone can feed 850 million people - that is the entirety of the continent; DRCongo has the resources to produce food for 2 billion people, but at present, it can't even feed its own small population).

The IEA has shown sufficiently now that Africa has enough land to grow biofuel crops to replace all oil, while meeting all of its food requirements and without chopping down a single tree.

This is the theoretical potential - this is beyond dispute.

Mr Ziegler should write more about the fundamentals: why hasn't Africa become a major food ánd biofuel exporter like Brazil?

That is really the only question we must ask. All the other ones are details.

Arguing against corn ethanol on this site is preaching to the converted.Of course subsidizing this activity is wrong,but you have to convince the board at ADM of this not us.The only possible good to come from corn ethanol is higher placement rates of E85 pumps.Without a big powerful lobby,Ethanol would have been stamped out by big oil.Cellulosic ethanol,when combined with increased use of diesel and bio-diesel will bridge the gap until hydrogen and Electric vehicle technology can catch up.Growing Jatropha trees in Africa in places where no food is currently grown will help feed people and run Europes diesel heavy vehicle mix until more technologically advanced solutions are perfected.