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Hybrids Post Strong US Sales in November; Up 82% Year-on-Year
6 December 2007
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| Total hybrid sales by month. Click to enlarge. |
Reported sales of hybrids in the US in November rose 82% year-on-year to reach 33,233 total units, representing 2.8% of all light-duty vehicles sold during the month. GM does not break out its hybrid sales separately, and so is not reflected in the hybrid number—thus, the actual hybrid total and new market share will slightly higher.
Total light-duty vehicle sales in the US dropped 1.6% year-on-year in November to 1,179,848 units, according to Autodata, with sales of light trucks dropping 7.4% and sales of passenger cars increasing 5.5%.
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| Hybrid share of new vehicle sales by month. Click to enlarge. |
Toyota posted a strong month, with Prius sales hitting 16,737 units, up 109% from the year before. Camry Hybrid turned in 5,118 units, up 65% from the year before and representing 14.5% of all Camry models sold. Sales of the Highlander Hybrid were back up after a slump for several months to 2,577 units—an increase of 55% from November 2006 and representing 20.9% of all Highlander models sold.
On the Lexus side of the house, sales of the Rx 400h climbed 26% to 1,674 units compared to November 2006, representing 20.8% of Rx 350/400h models sold. The high-end Lexus 600h posted 170 units, for 6.4% of the 2,668 units sold of the LS 460/600h models. The GS 450h posted 100 units, down 43% from November 2006, and representing 46.3% of the combined GS 460/450h sales and 4.5% of all GS models.
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| Hybrid component of brand sales. Click to enlarge. |
Ford turned in strong results for its Escape and Mariner hybrids, with combined sales up 50% from the year before to 2,224 units, representing 15.2% of combined model sales.
Honda’s Civic Hybrid posted 3,238 units, up 47% from November 2006 and representing 12.9% of all Civic sales in the month. The Accord Hybrid posted 204 units (0.9% of all Accord sales), down 34% from the year before.
Nissan had its best month yet for the Altima Hybrid, with 1,191 units representing 6% of all Altima sales. The Altima Hybrid is sold in only eight states.
December 6, 2007 in Hybrids, Sales | Permalink | Comments (43) | TrackBack (0)
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"Reported sales of hybrids in the US in November rose 82% year-on-year to reach 33,233 total units, representing 2.8% of all light-duty vehicles sold during the month.
Total light-duty vehicle sales in the US dropped 1.6%."
An 82% increase in hybrids while total sales dropped slightly shows a very encouraging trend.
"Sales of the Highlander Hybrid were back up after a slump for several months to 2,577 units—an increase of 55% from November 2006 and representing 20.9% of all Highlander models sold."
Sounds like Toyota was accurate when it said the slump was due mainly to supply side issues.
Hybrids being 20% of Highlander sales suggests that at least some SUV buyers are influenced by fuel consumption.
These figures make me wonder what could be achived with appropriate incentives in place
- GHG tax on all fossil fuels
- modest gasolene tax (funding PATP ins)
- feebate on new car sales based on CO2
- annual registration fees based on CO2
- incentives for hybrid R&D
- think of some more incentives
Posted by: Polly | Dec 6, 2007 9:21:47 AM
I wonder at what point they will decide to kill the GS460? Maybe they are keeping it to justify the costs for other vehicles using the same engine.
It seems to be very close to a 50/50 split most months with the GS450H and GS460.
Posted by: Patrick | Dec 6, 2007 10:44:36 AM
Polly,
Yes, IMO the numbers reflect availability more than consumer demand. One of those November Prius's was mine. I went to the Honda dealer to test drive the Civic Hybrid; they had exactly zero cars on the lot. If they made more they'd sell more.
The Toyota dealer had 8-10 Prius's, and I was able to pay less than MSRP. It's encouraging to see that Toyota now seems able to meet demand.
Lastly, I also own a 4Runner. I'll drive it a lot less now that we've got the Prius, but when it's replaced it will be with a hybrid, likely a Highlander. Some SUV drivers don't care about fuel economy, but I think most do.
Posted by: JamesEE | Dec 6, 2007 10:59:57 AM
What I would like to know is, what happens when the batteries of the Prius start to fail? Will the owners buy a new battery pack for an old car (the warranty of the batteries lasts for 8 years) or will (can?) the Prius be used without the battery pack.
Any answers welcome.
Posted by: Chris | Dec 6, 2007 11:14:04 AM
Polly
The French and the Finnish are soon introducing a feebate system based on CO2 emissions with cars. To quote a story from AutoblogGreen “In France beginning at the start of 2008, any vehicle that emits more than 160 g/km of carbon dioxide will be charged a tax ranging from €200 up to a maximum of €2,600 for vehicles that emit of 250 g/km. Cleaner cars that put out less than 130 g/km will get €200 back with rebates increasing to a maximum of €1,000 for cars like the Smart and VW Polo BlueMotion that produce less than 100 g/km.”
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/05/france-introduces-co2-tax-and-rebate-system-for-new-cars/
It is going to be very interesting to see how efficient this system is in changing the buying behavior towards less polluting vehicles that also help to reduce oil dependence. I think the effect will be large and much larger than a tax on fuel that involved a comparable amount of tax money over the lifetime of a car as this lump sum fee.
Posted by: Henrik | Dec 6, 2007 11:18:00 AM
You do the same thing that happens when your clutch or auto transmission goes out (those are things the Prius doesn't have, BTW). Your fix or replace it. But fortunately that hasn't been much of a problem (the oldest hybrids are now 10 years old, and there are a couple of Priuses with over 200000 miles and no problems). Also, chances are you'll only have to replace a few cells, not the whole thing.
Hybrids won't work without a battery pack, but they will still work if a few of the many cells start to go bad.
Your concern about the batteries seems to be based on all the scare tactics from the anti-hybrid crowd. Hybrids have much higher reliability, resale values, and satisfaction ratings than typical cars.
Posted by: Karkus | Dec 6, 2007 11:48:31 AM
Two of those hybrids (his and hers Priuses) are going to a neighbor of mine who is trading in a like-new Scion tC and a 3- or 4-year old Nissan Quest minivan.
He's an engineer with three kids. He did the math, looked at his kids and thought about their future, and then signed a couple of sales contracts.
Too bad we can't get more people to stop everything else they're doing and pay attention to energy and environmental issues for about 15 minutes. That's all it would take to start a stampede of customers toward the nearest hybrid dealers.
Posted by: Lou Grinzo | Dec 6, 2007 12:29:39 PM
Hybrids aren't going away like that B movie, "The Brain that wouldn't die"!
Posted by: Gerald Shields | Dec 6, 2007 2:17:07 PM
I have always felt hybrid sales are driven more by supply. The demand is higher then the supply. If they produced 25% more hybrids next month they would sell them. Maybe not double but the demand still exceeds the supply. These cars simply do not build up on the lots.
The first hybrids to languish on the lots might be the GM models. Of course I think they will sell because the salespeople want to sell a $50k SUV and make a fat commission.
Posted by: hampden wireless | Dec 6, 2007 5:02:55 PM
According to a friend who is a Toyota dealership mechanic, the Prius is far and away the least reliable car that Toyota currently sells. That is saying a lot, considering that Camry V6 transmissions have the life expectancy of a live hand grenade... He tells me that there are an unusually large number of TSB's and silent recalls for the Prius, which means that he ends-up working for half a day when you come in for a regular oil change.
As to what will happen to the batteries, the short answer is that Toyota doesn't want them, except in cases where the law says that they have to take them (warranty period). If you crash your car or are out of warranty for whatever reason, they will end-up in landfill (provided you can find a dump to take them). Toyota doesn't currently recycle the batteries, so they may yet end-up in landfill, leaking toxic chemicals into the water table.
If you haven't yet purchased a Prius, the environmentally sensible thing to do is to get a Corolla and spend the $6,000 you've saved on insulating your house, putting-up solar panels and planting a vegetable garden instead of a lawn. The downside is that you won't get as much bragging potential ("I am getting a better R value than George Clooney is.")
Posted by: Bernard | Dec 6, 2007 5:06:45 PM
Hi Bernard,
The Prius battery uses nickel and caustic soda. These are not nearly as hazardous a lead and sulphuric acid in standard car battey. Indeed, nickel is also used to make eating stainless steel utensils, and caustic soda to make soap.
Think about that when your in the shower in ten years, washing with recycled Prius battery electrolyte soap, and eating breakfast with recycled Prius electrodes forks.
Posted by: donee | Dec 6, 2007 6:17:19 PM
Bernard,
NiMH battery is not toxic: it does not contain Cadmium, only Nickel which is also expensive metal (~$5000/ton). You can make a lot of money if you know how to recycle this battery.
Posted by: Andrey | Dec 6, 2007 6:26:15 PM
@Bernard comments,
Where did this stuff come from?
Toyota still has a $200 dollar bounty for all used battery packs as far as I know, so they are taking them in. The battery in the Prius has a phone number to call to Toyota's disposal program. Both Honda and Toyota have recyling programs in place. People are stealing catalytic converters for a lower price for the metal in them.
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/environment/recycle/battery/index.html
Nickel is a usefull and valuable metal, in very short supply, which can be and is recycled. There was an article here in GCC, where a Japanese firm was testing a method of cryogenic breaking up and recovery of battery material that recovered 99% of the useful material. All batteries need to be recycled. What about the regular Pb-acid ones in cars? Why just concentrate on the ones in hybrids?
As for the TSB's and silent recalls. I've only remembering one recall for the Prius. It keeps being in the lists of better made cars. For the rest, just heresay. Let's see an actual article of proof on its quality. According to Consumer Reports the payback for the orginal NAm Prius is under 4 years with gas at $2/gallon the first 2 years $3 the third and $4 the fourth. What's the price of gas now?
According to an MIT lifecycle study, 80-85% of a vehicles pollution comes from the actual driving. If you have to drive and drive the average american amount (~10 500 miles/year) and plan on keeping it at least 4 years, getting a Prius will be a better choice.
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/facts/2004/fcvt_fotw306.html
@Chris,
The logic in the cars take care of recharging to optimize life. They are warrenteed 8-10 years, 150-200 thousand km. If they fail before that, then they get replaced at the manufacturers' cost. The batteries are not a long term energy storage solution and are not meant to be. They are for storage of braking energy and for use in boosting acceleration. In the Prius, they are only 6.5Ah, I believe. According to EPA testing, after 100000km, they have only 40-50% of their original capacity but the mileage doesn't really drop all that much in the PDF that I saw. Why? Because of the way it's being used. In any case, even by the time it fails, you can bet that the costs of any replacement would have dropped dramatically.
http://www.eaa-phev.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Battery_Specs
Posted by: aym | Dec 6, 2007 7:13:27 PM
Hi, Andrey, may I ask you to add initial or something to your handle at GCC, or other vice it will be two Andreys commenting.
As for nickel, it current price is 26 000 $ per ton (down from 55000 per ton in May, and expected to rise back to no less than 35000), and there is no way NiMh batteries will not be recycled. It is, actually, required by law, same with regular lead acid batteries. Current rate of recycling of automotive lead batteries in US is 98%, and about the same recycling rate is achieved in all western countries. Old catalytic converter could be sold to recyclers for up to 100 bucks, the older converters have higher price due to higher content of Platinum group metals.
Metal recycling is extremely lucrative business, and practically all old cars are recycled with total recycling rate close to 95%; most of the waste is chemically inert glass.
Posted by: Andrey | Dec 6, 2007 8:08:09 PM
As usual, even after seven years since first Hybrid was sold in the US, there are STILL a lot of myth and misinformation about hybrids.
At least the good news is that more and more people are owning hybrids and the usual BS that get posted in the comments will eventually get overwhelmed.
Posted by: Charles S | Dec 6, 2007 8:31:42 PM
bernard wrote:
As to what will happen to the batteries, the short answer is that Toyota doesn't want them, except in cases where the law says that they have to take them (warranty period). If you crash your car or are out of warranty for whatever reason, they will end-up in landfill (provided you can find a dump to take them). Toyota doesn't currently recycle the batteries, so they may yet end-up in landfill, leaking toxic chemicals into the water table.
=====================
Where do you get your info from? What you wrote is simply incorrect. Toyota PAYS $200 for the old batteries and most auto recyclers know that. Thats alot of dough for an easy to get out item so they are basically all recycled.
Posted by: hampden wireless | Dec 6, 2007 9:35:16 PM
Aym
Thanks for the answer and the link. My question wasn't meant critical at all. I just wanted to know whether there will be even more demand for batteries from such replacements. Like hampden wireless I suspect that supply, especially supply of batteries is the bottleneck factor here. While you can recycle the nickel in the batteries you can't yet recycle the lanthanium. China controls 95% of the available lanthanium (that's why GM goes to china now to produce hybrid cars) and their production can barely match the local demand.
Jack Lifton from Resource Investors wrote a good trilogy about rare earth recently. I think it's a good read.
http://www.resourceinvestor.com/pebble.asp?relid=16618
Posted by: Chris | Dec 7, 2007 4:06:55 AM
To answer two questions. As I clearly stated, I got my info from a Toyota dealership mechanic. This particular mechanic has been with the brand for over 20 years. I'll take his word over Wikipedia any day of the week. I should mention that this is in Canada, so Toyota warranties and policies may be different.
As for the hybrid payoff, fueleconomy.gov claims that the Prius will use roughly $500 less in fuel per year than a Corolla (which is the same size car). The Prius also lists at $6,000 more. That's a 12 year payoff before you figure-in interest (and higher maintenance for the hybrid). A four year payoff would imply that you are driving three times as much as the average American. That is possible, but by definition not typical.
Posted by: Bernard | Dec 7, 2007 7:25:15 AM
Bernard,
You better re-check your numbers as you are FAR off the mark (on price)!
Prius has standard ABS, EBD & traction control which all require option C on a Corolla LE + automatic tranny gives a base price of roughly $18,000 to get similar equipment as the Prius or a $2900 difference. Stop cherry picking facts that don't line up just because you want to try to reinforce your point...I can do the same "cherry picking" tactic as follows:
Prius has more shoulder room than Corolla and Matrix.
Prius has more hip room than Corolla and Matrix.
Prius has more leg room than Corolla and Matrix.
Prius has 6 cubic feet more passenger volume than Corolla.
Prius has more luggage capacity than Corolla.
Yet I didn't specify if I meant front space, rear space, or both...but I cherry picked whatever facts I wanted to without lieing to reinforce the point I was trying to make. See how fun this can be?
Posted by: Patrick | Dec 7, 2007 8:30:56 AM
Bernard: To use your source, fueleconomy.gov lists the Corolla as a compact, and the Prius as a midsize. They are NOT the same size. The Prius is closer in passenger volume to a Camry than it is to the Corolla, and has more trunkroom than either. Second, to get your $500 difference in fuel, and $6,000 difference in price, I see you're looking at the manual transmission. Otherwise, the difference in fuel usage rises to about $600, and the difference in price comes out to about $5600, which would give a non-discounted payback of 9 1/3 years Third, keep in mind that the Prius has a LOT more standard features.
If you take the Prius to be a model half way between a Corolla and a Camry, you get a difference in fuel usage of about $700 a year, and a difference in price of about $4000. So there you'd be looking at a non-discounted payback of 5.7 years.
Posted by: Tom | Dec 7, 2007 8:33:57 AM
Bernard is either a troll or just ignorant.
His claims about batteries are just WRONG, and comparing a Prius to a Corolla isn't right either. Ever tried fitting 2 people and 3 bikes inside a Corolla? NOT happening.
Sounds like a bad case of Prius envy. Try it sometime, and you might change your tune.
As for the TSBs...most apply to early 2004 models - it's normal for a new car to have extra issues. But do the TSBs mean it really has problems, or is Toyota fixing things preemptively under warranty to keep their customers happy?
Besides, Toyota pays dealers nicely for TSB/warranty work. A good mechanic can do jobs much faster than what they are typically listed as, so why is the mechanic complaining? Maybe he's not happy because after 20 years of doing the same things, he has to learn a few new thing about hybrids and doesn't like it.
Posted by: Karkus | Dec 7, 2007 9:29:51 AM
The mechanic wasn't complaining (even though warranty work pay about half of what regular service pays). He was just stating his informed opinion that the Prius was the least reliable currently available Toyota. He sees every kind of Toyota on a daily basis and is a licensed, conscientious professional, so obviously the best thing to do is to call him ignorant...
As for the fact that you can pimp-up a Corolla to be nearly the same price as a Prius. You can pimp-up any car. Save it for pimpcarcongress ("How to be environmentally sensible without giving up plush velour seating").
According to Toyota's own data, the Prius and Corolla are within a few centimeters of each other in every significant dimension, with the Prius not always being the larger of the two. The only major difference is that the Corolla hatchback is not available in the US, so ultimate cargo space suffers. If this is a deal breaker, you should know that other makers offer hatches in this size. I used the Corolla in my example because it is also made by Toyota.
I stand by my original statement that you are better off getting the Corolla and spending the $6,000 difference making a real environmental difference. If you can't drive standard (perhaps you are an amputee), you can spend the $5,000 difference making a difference instead.
Posted by: Bernard | Dec 7, 2007 10:09:27 AM
Bernard,
You are still putting out false information.
Pimped up Corolla? So standard equipment doesn't apply in your cost calculations? It is obvious you have no bearing on marketing/sales or Engineering of any type.
Now if they were from two different manufacturers and one were trying to get you to buy their car with more standard equipment at the same price...that would be different.
Hello, my name is Bernard and I prefer to compare apples and oranges because I do not know any better. A Corolla is a much better deal than a Porsche Turbo Carrera because look: The Corolla saves you $200 per horsepower purchased. Therefore, I can just go down the dragstrip or Laguna Seca 2 times to every 5 times you go around and get a better payback. Isn't it obvious that buying the sporty suspension and more powerful engine (XRS) for the Corolla is just pimping it up to try to match the performance of the Porsche? Obviously the dollar to horsepower ratio is much better in the Corolla. Look at me! Look at me!
Posted by: Patrick | Dec 7, 2007 2:54:57 PM
Hybrids represent 14.5% of all Camry models sold.
That's a great stat for the best selling car. It shows that with proper supply and reasonable hybrid premium, 20% of all vehicles sold could be hybrids in a very short period of time.
Posted by: BMW_4_ever | Dec 7, 2007 3:27:10 PM
JamesEE - you say that a lot of SUV drivers care about fuel economy. I think the problem (for some of them, at least) is that there are no options that provide significantly better fuel economy than an SUV, right now. Sure, you can get 40 mpg rather than 20 mpg if you switch to a Prius (depending on where you drive), but if you like your SUV, that might not be enough the justify the switch.
Once there are PHEVs and full EVs out, though, the advantages will be huge. I see at least a few 100 mpg plus PHEVs coming out in the next few years and at least one realistic replacement for an SUV in the form of a full EV coming out in the next few years. A switch from $80 fill-ups once a week to $40 fill-ups once a month or $2 charges once a week could make a HUGE difference for SUV drivers like that.
Posted by: Ross | Dec 7, 2007 8:58:28 PM
How sustainable is a hybrid. Where does the ore for the batteries come from? Is the ore shipped to another country to make the batteries? Are the batteries shipped to another country to be installed? Is the car then shipped to the US to be sold? Do the batteries emit EMF's inside the car that might have health risks. What percent of a hybrid is made locally? Does the hybrid manufacturer also sell gas hog vehicles too? Do I want to support a company that sells gas hog vehicles. Maybe gas is passe?
Posted by: Randy | Dec 8, 2007 9:05:46 AM
How sustainable is a hybrid. Where does the ore for the batteries come from? Is the ore shipped to another country to make the batteries? Are the batteries shipped to another country to be installed? Is the car then shipped to the US to be sold? Do the batteries emit EMF's inside the car that might have health risks. What percent of a hybrid is made locally? Does the hybrid manufacturer also sell gas hog vehicles too? Do I want to support a company that sells gas hog vehicles. Maybe gas is passe?
Posted by: Randy | Dec 8, 2007 9:06:14 AM
Randy, that ore comes from the same place that all the nickel that goes into stainless steel and chrome plating comes from. What percentage of American cars are made locally with locally made parts? These are issues for all cars. Hybrids aren't unique in this respect.
Posted by: Tripp | Dec 8, 2007 3:04:03 PM
Prius posted 109 % increase in Nov-2007 - Awesome.
While Toyota's Hybrids have gained, the trucks have suffered severely.
Sequioa down 56 %
4Runner down 17 %
Sienna down 24 %.
This month Tahoe & Yukon Hybrids are hitting the market. Got to see how it goes.
Gas prices have remained above $3 for more than a month.
Truck sales are down 7 % and thats the new trend.
Posted by: Max Reid | Dec 9, 2007 12:47:23 PM
I think you are all missing the point. Yes, Hybrids do cost more but they use less gas. The gas is produced primarily from foreign oil imports. OPEC controls the price based on demand. Reduce the demand and the price of oil will come down affecting not only the price of gasoline but also for other products such as heating oil. I currently use synthetic oil in my current vehicles and will buy at least one Prius in 2008. I am willing to pay more and reduce our demand on foreign oil imports. Some of foreign oil producing countries we import from do support terrorist activities.
Posted by: TangoSierra | Dec 11, 2007 5:10:25 AM
Oil prices aren't based on supply and demand.
Also, the diesel VW jetta, golf and GTI were putting up similar mileage numbers as the Prius. hoping to see new models in diesel on show room floors in the US again soon.
Posted by: Esteban | Dec 11, 2007 9:06:16 AM
Bernard, even if your friend exists, it sounds like he is pretty clueless. The Prius is more reliable than a typical Toyota model. This is not an opinion, this is a FACT. You (or your friend) can have as many opinions as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the Prius is a VERY reliable vehicle.
Also, Toyota PAYS $200 to take old batteries off your hands. This is not from Wikipedia, this is directly from Toyota. Regardless of what your "mechanic friend" says, I'd rather take the word of Toyota itself.
Posted by: toyo | Dec 11, 2007 8:00:05 PM
For Esteban --
As a finite resource the price of oil is irrevocably wedded to supply and demand fundamentals. Other factors such as geopolitics and trading speculation may shift prices in one direction or another. But the fundamentals for oil price rest on supply and demand. Anyone claiming something different is spreading misinformation.
The fundamental reason for the current high cost of oil? The market is under supplied. For the past 13 months countries have been drawing down stocks to make up for marginal short falls. Demand is still rising, albeit more slowly, and supply is struggling to increase. We are in a very strange, scary, and interesting time when it comes to oil supply availability and cost. The threats to the supply are greater than ever before at a time when the world needs more oil than every before to continue rapid economic expansion.
In my opinion, and I think many here may agree, the primary benefit of purchasing a hybrid is not, necessarily, the added fuel economy. Though this certainly plays a part, the primary benefit is societal. If you purchase a hybrid, you support a technology that will begin, increasingly, to replace oil as a transportation fuel.
For example:
1. In 2007 you buy a Prius or Civic Hybrid (approx 40+ mpg).
2. In 2012 you buy a plug in electric hybrid (approx 80+ mpg in combined average driving).
3. In 2018 you buy an all electric vehicle and complete the transition away from an environmentally, politically, and economically dangerous source of energy.
Even purchasing a fuel efficient conventional vehicle just extends the current trouble surrounding the use of fossil fuels as an energy source for transportation.
What kind of future do you want to buy into Esteban? Bernard?
Posted by: Robert | Dec 13, 2007 10:54:17 PM
Robert,
Your post is well-written, and your logic is undeniable. I did buy a Prius in 2007, so check off number one. I hope your predictions for 2012 and 2018 come true as well. Thanks.
Posted by: JamesEE | Dec 14, 2007 8:07:52 AM
Robert,
Your post is well-written, and your logic is undeniable. I did buy a Prius in 2007, so check off number one. I hope your predictions for 2012 and 2018 come true as well. Thanks.
Posted by: JamesEE | Dec 14, 2007 8:08:37 AM
Cheers James and thanks so much for the kind note. For my part, I think it's amazing that the revolutionary technology hybrids make available to us are at such a low cost that they are competitive with many of the least expensive vehicles on the market once gasoline costs are factored in. The continued reduction in the cost of a Prius is also VERY encouraging to me as are what seem to be viable plug-in hybrid options for 2010 and later.
For those of you who have purchased a hybrid -- my hat is off to you! You are part of the solution that may just put world civilization on a path toward sustainable growth and away from severe economic hardship and potential catastrophic climate change. I know it's just a first step but the first step is often the hardest.
I also think you'll see real benefit economically from your choices as the years go by and the cost of gasoline fuel tends to stay high or even increase.
33,000+ hybrids sold in the US this past November is a huge milestone and I think it shows how serious people are about helping us become more energy independent. Hopefully we'll see continued growth at this rate or more in the future.
For the auto companies who produce hybrids:
Toyota: A+ (a real pioneer)
Honda: A - (good job but needs to work better on supply!)
Nissan: C+ (a late entry, but also shows some promise)
Ford: C+ (only hybrid SUVs? Come on!)
GM: D+ (How serious can they be if they don't even break out the hybrid figures? IF GM succeeds in producing the Volt PHEV in high volumes at a cost competitive price, I will give it much better marks. For my part, I want GM to show me the Volt! No more boondoggles please!)
All automakers who have not produced hybrid models: F (What are you waiting for? $200 oil?)
Posted by: Robert | Dec 14, 2007 10:40:15 PM
My complements to the site and I'm impressed by the comments. There are clearly many knowledgeable folks on this board.
I come here every few months to collect sales data on hybrids just for SAG. One think I also track is the monthly average price of gas. This monthly article might consider including a small box with the tabulated gas price trend. It seems to me to be a good indirect cross-check which is easy to include. Just a thought.
Posted by: Lee | Dec 25, 2007 9:01:57 PM
Additional notes and extended thoughts.
I've now finished reading through the October and November posts. I posted my last comment after reading only the October article. The October posts were more level headed but the November posts were thrown off track by trollish comments.
I say this with the best intent... I assume some of the regulars know each other by name and I hope this is true. I hope you guys are working together. There's clearly an impressive amount of caring on this board. I didn't notice it until today but it's great to see. Again, you've got a great board and by that I mean trust worthy. I think the "regulars" provide an incredible service by providing your collective knowledge for free - out of passion. Normally a board is a collection of people of all sorts that are interested in a topic but this board shows more than simple interest.
I don't claim to be Gandolf. But here are some thoughts I've had after reading through the November posts.
-Recognize a troll and ignore. Respond with a flood of undirected information. It works. Trust me. You guys know more than the troll. Don't respond to the troll directly. Provide sourced information.
-Never use capitalized words unless it's an acronym.
-Don't moralize technology. I'll bastardize Buffet by saying that you can win on votes for hybids in the short term but in the long term the technology needs to be weighed against it's competition. So concentrate on numbers and concentrate on weight. You all know this is a long term process. Play it that way. But...
-Don't project very far. Keep the projections seasonal. Projecting out several years is foolhardy. Work within the present and the season at most. Keep in mind the changing face of this technology.
Hmmm.. My only other thought is more personal... I don't like carbon taxes. I don't think they will work because they don't fall into a classic performance category. I suggest you stay away from global warming and carbon and concentrate on performance. The long term success of hybrids and PHEVs will be driven by performance. You guys should all know this. Always stress performance and avoid morality. It's the better angle.
Posted by: Lee | Dec 25, 2007 10:21:49 PM
About new car fuel, check this out.
- Solid biofuel vehicle solutions.
www.precer.com
I have been looking for alternative hybrid car
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this company in Europe who has developed a new
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like what we all have been waiting for.
They have a new vehicle called BioRacer and are
developing their technolgy for other vehicles also.
Have a look at www.precer.com
There are alot of writing about the company in different
newspapers and also on television in Sweden.
They have alot of different links to the articles and
what 2 different Swedish televison companies has made
about this company, you can see the vehicle drive in
these links.
I really like what they are doing, so please check it
out. I will try to get more information.
John
Posted by: John Holland | Dec 31, 2007 10:54:45 AM
OPEC representative talks about how increasing the supply wouldn't change the $100 a barrel current price. He said other factors are at hand. And from a BBC article:
"I would imagine the speculators are the biggest drivers today," said Phil Flynn from Alaron Trading in Chicago.
The oil-producers' cartel Opec has also blamed speculators for the high price of crude and said that there is plenty of the fuel in the market to meet demand. "
So its not just supply and demand. Remember the falling dollar has to be factored in as well. I still encourage people to buy fuel efficient cars. And that includes the diesel VW's since they have a reported MPG that rivals the Prius according to the Fuel Economy.gov website. It's estimated to get 35 combined, but people's responses average out to numbers in the 40+ range for the Jetta, Golf, and Beetle. I am personally opposed to the increased use of Biodiesel even though i encourage buying diesel VWs. The negative affects on food supply I think outway the positive effects of getting away from oil dependency. Personally things like the Aptera (google it) get me hoping sooner than later we'll have some good electric options. And finally, for most people the best reason to buy a fuel efficient car is the money that is being saved. Buying gas for a SUV is like having another large car note. Just think of the price difference after 1 year. Unless your rich I think the couple of thousand saved would come in real handy.
Posted by: Esteban | Jan 4, 2008 7:43:22 AM
So last night I mentioned that I had heard an interesting quote on another blog the other day that said,“ What you win them with is what you win them to. ” So this lead me to ask the question which is do we worship God or our we entertained or amused in the presence of God? For example, consider this recent quote from a newspaper concerning the experience one will have in an expansion of“ a nondenominational’ seeker- sensitive’ ” megachurch to a new location where” visitors will be welcomed by greeters, grab...
Posted by: Stratumseind Cafe de Stunt | Mar 26, 2008 12:04:31 AM
Smart Diablo..
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Posted by: Juno | Oct 6, 2008 8:51:34 AM
