How sustainable is a hybrid. Where does the ore for the batteries come from? Is the ore shipped to another country to make the batteries? Are the batteries shipped to another country to be installed? Is the car then shipped to the US to be sold? Do the batteries emit EMF's inside the car that might have health risks. What percent of a hybrid is made locally? Does the hybrid manufacturer also sell gas hog vehicles too? Do I want to support a company that sells gas hog vehicles. Maybe gas is passe?

How sustainable is a hybrid. Where does the ore for the batteries come from? Is the ore shipped to another country to make the batteries? Are the batteries shipped to another country to be installed? Is the car then shipped to the US to be sold? Do the batteries emit EMF's inside the car that might have health risks. What percent of a hybrid is made locally? Does the hybrid manufacturer also sell gas hog vehicles too? Do I want to support a company that sells gas hog vehicles. Maybe gas is passe?

Randy, that ore comes from the same place that all the nickel that goes into stainless steel and chrome plating comes from. What percentage of American cars are made locally with locally made parts? These are issues for all cars. Hybrids aren't unique in this respect.

Prius posted 109 % increase in Nov-2007 - Awesome.
While Toyota's Hybrids have gained, the trucks have suffered severely.
Sequioa down 56 %
4Runner down 17 %
Sienna down 24 %.

This month Tahoe & Yukon Hybrids are hitting the market. Got to see how it goes.

Gas prices have remained above $3 for more than a month.
Truck sales are down 7 % and thats the new trend.

I think you are all missing the point. Yes, Hybrids do cost more but they use less gas. The gas is produced primarily from foreign oil imports. OPEC controls the price based on demand. Reduce the demand and the price of oil will come down affecting not only the price of gasoline but also for other products such as heating oil. I currently use synthetic oil in my current vehicles and will buy at least one Prius in 2008. I am willing to pay more and reduce our demand on foreign oil imports. Some of foreign oil producing countries we import from do support terrorist activities.

Oil prices aren't based on supply and demand.

Also, the diesel VW jetta, golf and GTI were putting up similar mileage numbers as the Prius. hoping to see new models in diesel on show room floors in the US again soon.

Bernard, even if your friend exists, it sounds like he is pretty clueless. The Prius is more reliable than a typical Toyota model. This is not an opinion, this is a FACT. You (or your friend) can have as many opinions as you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the Prius is a VERY reliable vehicle.

Also, Toyota PAYS $200 to take old batteries off your hands. This is not from Wikipedia, this is directly from Toyota. Regardless of what your "mechanic friend" says, I'd rather take the word of Toyota itself.

For Esteban --

As a finite resource the price of oil is irrevocably wedded to supply and demand fundamentals. Other factors such as geopolitics and trading speculation may shift prices in one direction or another. But the fundamentals for oil price rest on supply and demand. Anyone claiming something different is spreading misinformation.

The fundamental reason for the current high cost of oil? The market is under supplied. For the past 13 months countries have been drawing down stocks to make up for marginal short falls. Demand is still rising, albeit more slowly, and supply is struggling to increase. We are in a very strange, scary, and interesting time when it comes to oil supply availability and cost. The threats to the supply are greater than ever before at a time when the world needs more oil than every before to continue rapid economic expansion.

In my opinion, and I think many here may agree, the primary benefit of purchasing a hybrid is not, necessarily, the added fuel economy. Though this certainly plays a part, the primary benefit is societal. If you purchase a hybrid, you support a technology that will begin, increasingly, to replace oil as a transportation fuel.

For example:

1. In 2007 you buy a Prius or Civic Hybrid (approx 40+ mpg).
2. In 2012 you buy a plug in electric hybrid (approx 80+ mpg in combined average driving).
3. In 2018 you buy an all electric vehicle and complete the transition away from an environmentally, politically, and economically dangerous source of energy.

Even purchasing a fuel efficient conventional vehicle just extends the current trouble surrounding the use of fossil fuels as an energy source for transportation.

What kind of future do you want to buy into Esteban? Bernard?

Robert,

Your post is well-written, and your logic is undeniable. I did buy a Prius in 2007, so check off number one. I hope your predictions for 2012 and 2018 come true as well. Thanks.

Robert,

Your post is well-written, and your logic is undeniable. I did buy a Prius in 2007, so check off number one. I hope your predictions for 2012 and 2018 come true as well. Thanks.

Cheers James and thanks so much for the kind note. For my part, I think it's amazing that the revolutionary technology hybrids make available to us are at such a low cost that they are competitive with many of the least expensive vehicles on the market once gasoline costs are factored in. The continued reduction in the cost of a Prius is also VERY encouraging to me as are what seem to be viable plug-in hybrid options for 2010 and later.

For those of you who have purchased a hybrid -- my hat is off to you! You are part of the solution that may just put world civilization on a path toward sustainable growth and away from severe economic hardship and potential catastrophic climate change. I know it's just a first step but the first step is often the hardest.

I also think you'll see real benefit economically from your choices as the years go by and the cost of gasoline fuel tends to stay high or even increase.

33,000+ hybrids sold in the US this past November is a huge milestone and I think it shows how serious people are about helping us become more energy independent. Hopefully we'll see continued growth at this rate or more in the future.

For the auto companies who produce hybrids:

Toyota: A+ (a real pioneer)

Honda: A - (good job but needs to work better on supply!)

Nissan: C+ (a late entry, but also shows some promise)

Ford: C+ (only hybrid SUVs? Come on!)

GM: D+ (How serious can they be if they don't even break out the hybrid figures? IF GM succeeds in producing the Volt PHEV in high volumes at a cost competitive price, I will give it much better marks. For my part, I want GM to show me the Volt! No more boondoggles please!)

All automakers who have not produced hybrid models: F (What are you waiting for? $200 oil?)

My complements to the site and I'm impressed by the comments. There are clearly many knowledgeable folks on this board.

I come here every few months to collect sales data on hybrids just for SAG. One think I also track is the monthly average price of gas. This monthly article might consider including a small box with the tabulated gas price trend. It seems to me to be a good indirect cross-check which is easy to include. Just a thought.

Additional notes and extended thoughts.

I've now finished reading through the October and November posts. I posted my last comment after reading only the October article. The October posts were more level headed but the November posts were thrown off track by trollish comments.

I say this with the best intent... I assume some of the regulars know each other by name and I hope this is true. I hope you guys are working together. There's clearly an impressive amount of caring on this board. I didn't notice it until today but it's great to see. Again, you've got a great board and by that I mean trust worthy. I think the "regulars" provide an incredible service by providing your collective knowledge for free - out of passion. Normally a board is a collection of people of all sorts that are interested in a topic but this board shows more than simple interest.

I don't claim to be Gandolf. But here are some thoughts I've had after reading through the November posts.

-Recognize a troll and ignore. Respond with a flood of undirected information. It works. Trust me. You guys know more than the troll. Don't respond to the troll directly. Provide sourced information.
-Never use capitalized words unless it's an acronym.
-Don't moralize technology. I'll bastardize Buffet by saying that you can win on votes for hybids in the short term but in the long term the technology needs to be weighed against it's competition. So concentrate on numbers and concentrate on weight. You all know this is a long term process. Play it that way. But...
-Don't project very far. Keep the projections seasonal. Projecting out several years is foolhardy. Work within the present and the season at most. Keep in mind the changing face of this technology.

Hmmm.. My only other thought is more personal... I don't like carbon taxes. I don't think they will work because they don't fall into a classic performance category. I suggest you stay away from global warming and carbon and concentrate on performance. The long term success of hybrids and PHEVs will be driven by performance. You guys should all know this. Always stress performance and avoid morality. It's the better angle.

About new car fuel, check this out.

- Solid biofuel vehicle solutions.
www.precer.com

I have been looking for alternative hybrid car
solutions for a while and while searching I found
this company in Europe who has developed a new
solid biofuel powered vehicle technology that sounds
like what we all have been waiting for.

They have a new vehicle called BioRacer and are
developing their technolgy for other vehicles also.

Have a look at www.precer.com

There are alot of writing about the company in different
newspapers and also on television in Sweden.
They have alot of different links to the articles and
what 2 different Swedish televison companies has made
about this company, you can see the vehicle drive in
these links.

I really like what they are doing, so please check it
out. I will try to get more information.

John

OPEC representative talks about how increasing the supply wouldn't change the $100 a barrel current price. He said other factors are at hand. And from a BBC article:

"I would imagine the speculators are the biggest drivers today," said Phil Flynn from Alaron Trading in Chicago.

The oil-producers' cartel Opec has also blamed speculators for the high price of crude and said that there is plenty of the fuel in the market to meet demand. "

So its not just supply and demand. Remember the falling dollar has to be factored in as well. I still encourage people to buy fuel efficient cars. And that includes the diesel VW's since they have a reported MPG that rivals the Prius according to the Fuel Economy.gov website. It's estimated to get 35 combined, but people's responses average out to numbers in the 40+ range for the Jetta, Golf, and Beetle. I am personally opposed to the increased use of Biodiesel even though i encourage buying diesel VWs. The negative affects on food supply I think outway the positive effects of getting away from oil dependency. Personally things like the Aptera (google it) get me hoping sooner than later we'll have some good electric options. And finally, for most people the best reason to buy a fuel efficient car is the money that is being saved. Buying gas for a SUV is like having another large car note. Just think of the price difference after 1 year. Unless your rich I think the couple of thousand saved would come in real handy.

So last night I mentioned that I had heard an interesting quote on another blog the other day that said,“ What you win them with is what you win them to. ” So this lead me to ask the question which is do we worship God or our we entertained or amused in the presence of God? For example, consider this recent quote from a newspaper concerning the experience one will have in an expansion of“ a nondenominational’ seeker- sensitive’ ” megachurch to a new location where” visitors will be welcomed by greeters, grab...

Smart Diablo..

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