I just found a site that seems to have GM numbers - and they're quite low.

http://www.hybridcars.com/market-dashboard.html
Click on a month and go to US sales.

GM has low hybird sales numbers? What's the GM equivalent of a Prius?

Toyota represent 73% US hybrid sales to date. Rarely does a business command this kind of market share. Makes a good opportunity for the competition.

I went through the numbers for all the months on the reference page. The GM sales started to decline in August. I interpret that as a "Sold Out" condition on their early hybrids. This is a common phenomenon on end of year models. Favorite options are no longer available as the vehicles on dealer-lots get picked over at the end of a typical model year.

Still the big seller is Toyota by far. Honda, Ford, Nissan and GM vary from 8% to 1% market penetration. Since Honda has announced that they are re-directing away from Hybrids, by the Honda President; and Nissan is buying its drive trains for a single model from Toyota, they will not expand sales much.

I think it is quite apparent that Ford and GM will rapidly assume the second and third hybrid sales leaders soon.

It is notable the US market has been by far the largest market for hybrids in the world.

With the significant number of hybrid vehicles that GM has announced, while Ford has been relatively quiet, I suspect next year, GM will pass Nissan and Ford and vault into distant second or third place, as Honda withdraws from the hybrid market.

Despite the general attitude that domestic manufacturers are inept, Ford and GM, will likely become the second and third largest hybrid automakers in the world by the end of the 2008 model year.

I suppose the GM equivalent to a Prius would be the Chrevolet Aveo, which only has an ICE power plant, and is, in fact, the Daewoo Kalos.

How do the percentages look when weighted against the overall vehicle market share for each of the competitors?

@ Stan, I hope your right it would be a good omen indeed for the companies, the rest of us who have to breathe air and share resources, and the industry in general.
Toyota have according to these figures sucessfully spearheaded the hybrid concept. A brave and forward thinking act that can not easily be duplicated.
If the US makers can bring up the rear with consumer ready designs, they will become real players in tomorrow.
That is no easy task for companies that have acheived such high inertia that have pandered to the profligate selfishness of their public for so many decades.
So not only are there technology and engineering issues to catch up on but company structural issues, and consumer education areas that demand triage. At the same time as keeping the buisnesss alive.
As a result of cosing up to incompetent govt's and regulators over the last three decades at least.
Lets see how many commentaters try to blame every other
aspect including serious criticism.
When that possibility is fully exhausted, and realisation that there is no one else to blame.
Then the work can truly commence.

The next hybrid car I want to buy will be a gen-set. That is to say a plugin with electric motors to drive the car and a generator to recharge the batteries when needed. Yes, something like the Volt. I really have a hard time understanding why something like this is not on the market already. The first one to bring one out will make a killing.

Joseph:

re: your question, "I really have a hard time understanding why something like this is not on the market already."

Batteries (heavy, expensive, short service life). Only very recently are batteries viable for plug-in auto applications becoming available.

Yep, it's ALL about the batteries. Cost,safety,weight and production volume. You need all those combined.

And whoever comes out with a Volt type vehicle first will NOT make a killing. Why? Battery cost (GM has even said they may to lease batteries for the Volt). However, whoever comes out with it first will score major PR points, even if they have to subsidize it.

Does anyone know the source of this information??

I'd like to use some of the graphs, and would like to reference it.

Thanks

The only reason toyota was first is japan already had a geekswarm not only willing and wealthy enough to buy the cars but far more imporyantly willing and eager and wealthy enough to buy billions of geek toys that funded and used the early batteries they needed for the car to ever exist.

But now the us has gone geek and is revving up its gizmos.

Japan simply outgeeked us.

The Scoot: I hope you're kidding. please, keep us laughing. an aveo is the prius? who are you kidding? have you ever been ... in either one?

Japan does indeed outgeek US in consumer electronics and weird stuff like paperless toilets. What should not be forgotten is the acceptance the US geeks and eco-freaks offered the Prius. Japan built it - the US adopted it. Now there appears to be a real move to electrify transportation. Good.

GM sold less than 10,000 hybrids last year. Even though their version of a hybrid includes the Silverado pickup and VUE BAS, this is still a small fraction of what the others have done. Toyota sells more in one month than GM did in a whole year.

question for those who say it is the cost of the battery
that is holding back the production of hybirds that could run on electric only for a number of miles: What is in the LithIon battery that costs so much? New technology costs a little more in the beginning that I can understand. Mass production would solve that problem. Do they contain some precious metal that is in short supply?

>>Do they contain some precious metal that is in short supply?

Cobalt in the case of LiCoOx consumer batteries. Lithium itself in all cases - lithium supply can't keep up with demand for electronic items batteries today and future Realistic Li production capacity expansion has no chance of ever meeting EV/PHEV or even HEV0 demand.

The current producers of Lithium batteries are in East Asia. US producers are in niche market, with much less production capacities.

The East Asia producers are making laptop type lithium batteries, which does not suit automotive applications well. A number of US start-ups have proto-type lithium batteries with improved safeties, but high price and lack of production capacity.

Either the US start-ups will gain production capacity, or the Asian producers will convert a part of their capacities to the newer battery type. Once mass production starts, the price will drop rapidly.

I think by the time when the new Prius model comes, the various battery suppliers would have to show their hand for real, and we will be able to tell who are the real players in this field.

as the term "hybrid" has come to mean "whatever you like", i.e. oversized generators, "mild hybrids", "almost-but-not-quite hybrids" etc, then the numbers are not really meaningful, are they ?

Emphyrio: If Lithium production is unable to keep up with demand, it won't be because of the resource base. Lithium is one of the more common elements on earth.

Joseph writes:

>The next hybrid car I want to buy will be a gen-set.
>That is to say a plugin with electric motors to
>drive the car and a generator to recharge the
>batteries when needed.

You're talking about a series hybrid, as opposed to parallel or series-parallel hybrids (the latter, is the configuration used by the Prius and the Ford Escape).

The series configuration, i.e. engine --> generator --> traction motor, is used with Diesel-electric locomotives on the world's railroads because any other configuration would be a blinding mechanical headache. But the series or parallel-series configuration is more efficient for cars.

I am an economist not an electrician, this is what I don't understand. My motor home is 4 years old, so I am using at least 4 year old tech. The generator is quiet and sips gas at about a gallon every 3 hours, the small Honda in my shop will run between 5-7 hours on a gallon. Anyway, the generator will run the fridge, stove, flat screen, DTV and converter box, pig of an AC, hot water heater,waterpump, several lights and a desktop replacement laptop all while charging a behemoth of a deep cycle battery and the two starter batteries up front. Surely all that juice could run an electric motor to drive the wheels. Providing the generator runs for 3 hours on a gallon, if you are doing 60mph on the freeway that's 180 mpg. What am I missing.

Joseph:

"Surely all that juice could run an electric motor to drive the wheels."

You haven't done the math. How many KW is your generator producing? How many KW does it take to drive your car 60MPH? What are the losses in the system, etc. etc.

I think you'll find that your generator is significantly smaller than needed, besides which the power conversions (mechanical->electrical->mechanical) would be much less efficient than a direct mechanical drivetrain.

lensovet, the wheelbase for the Daewoo Kalos is 97.6 inches. The wheelbase for the Prius is 106.4 inches.

The Kalos has a 1.6 liter straight four ICE. The Prius has a 1.5 liter straight four ICE.

They are comparable. The only thing going for the Prius is its 50 Kw electric motor and its planetary gear transmission.

The Chevy Aveo or Daewoo Kalos probably will not ever be upgraded to hybrid status with a planetary gear transmission, but there will plenty of the Aveo/Kalos in General Motors final answer to the Prius.

If your generator creates 2kw and your vehicle takes 20kw to go 60 mph on a level surface with no wind, you can see the problem. A large motor home would probably take much more than 20kw.