« Sanyo Introducing Li-Ion Bike with Regenerative Braking | Main | EPA: US Greenhouse Gas Emissions in 2006 Decreased 1.5% from Prior Year; Transportation Accounts for 27% of Total GHG, 33% of CO2 »
CalCars Weighs In on GM Series/Toyota Parallel PHEV Debate
7 March 2008
Guest piece by Ron Gremban, CalCars
GM and Toyota have been taking public shots at each other, each claiming that their plug-in hybrid (PHEV) technology—not yet brought to market—is the best, and implying that the other's plans are poorly thought out, to say the least.
We at CalCars, if anything, are thrilled to see the two biggest automakers in the world touting their upcoming PHEV wares and paying significant attention to each other's. But what is the science behind the dispute? What follows is a discussion that is aimed at engineers, but we think will be quite informative also to non-technical audiences. Thanks to Dr. Andy Frank of UC Davis and Efficient Drivetrains Inc. for his helpful review and comments.
A preview of my conclusion: It turns out that different battery sizes have different optimum PHEV architectures, and each company’s claims are basically accurate, but only for its vehicle’s battery size. Since each type of PHEV has its own advantages, disadvantages, costs, and optimum driving regimes, our expectation is that during the first few years—maybe a decade—of PHEV production, all types of PHEVs will compete well in the marketplace.
Then, eventually—as batteries become a cheaper, longer-life, commodity item, liquid fuels become more dear, renewable electricity generation proliferates, and CO2 emissions are increasingly targeted—the PHEVs with the most EV power and range will come to dominate.
First, let’s establish what, in our opinion, are the most important characteristics of a PHEV. Though PHEV technology can improve overall powertrain efficiency, decrease criteria emissions, provide full zero-emissions capabilities part of the time, etc.—and other technologies can and ought to be used to significantly reduce vehicle mass and drag—the most profound capability of any PHEV is its ability to displace some of the vehicle’s consumption of liquid fuel (usually gasoline) with stored electricity from the grid, and to do so without introducing new overall vehicle limitations (e.g. the high cost, extra weight, and range limitations of pure EVs).
It is this fuel displacement from which all the most important advantages of PHEVs arise: dramatically reduced oil consumption and greenhouse gas emissions, low enough liquid fuel consumption that biofuels may someday fully substitute for fossil fuels, and energy storage that can eventually enable increased deployment of intermittent renewable electric generation from sources such as wind. Therefore, the very most important measure of a PHEV is the extent of its ability to displace liquid fuels, to do so during normal US driving cycles, and to do so cost effectively. All else is frosting on the cake.
When we look at “normal US driving cycles”, there are several areas of general agreement. The average mileage driven per day is around 30 miles. There is a curve available showing percentage of daily driving vs. distance. Though there is a continuum, driving is broken down into city and highway driving; standard drive cycles, UDDS (a city driving cycle) and HWY, have been designed to emulate each. These standard cycles are obsolete and grossly underestimate required vehicle energy and capabilities, but are used as the basis of all EPA and CARB testing anyway. The US06 combined drive cycle is a much more realistic standard cycle.
Since the first standards for testing and measurement of PHEV performance are still being written, general references to these three standard cycles that the upcoming SAE J1711 standards will reference are our best bet for measuring and comparing PHEV performance. Dr. Andy Frank suggests that a new “Annual Driving Cycle” be designed to model annual electricity and gasoline usage, but for now that doesn’t exist.
There are series hybrids, where the internal combustion engine (ICE) drives only a generator; parallel hybrids, where both the ICE and electric motor are always connected to the wheels; and power-split or series/parallel hybrids, where either the motor or the ICE or both drive the wheels at various times.
Though the Chevy Volt is presented as a series PHEV, and the Toyota Prius (as well as the 2-mode Saturn Vue, too!) is power-split, the specific architecture is actually fairly irrelevant to the main issue that GM and Toyota are addressing. Incidentally, my calculations lead me to believe that the inherent efficiencies of each of the architectures are close enough to each other that the quality of engineering that goes into each vehicle is more likely than the architecture chosen to determine overall vehicle efficiency.
Though the details can vary and/or the mode distinctions blur, all plug-in hybrids basically have a charge-depletion mode and a charge-sustaining mode. After a grid charge, the charge-depletion mode is activated first, during which time as much of the vehicle’s propulsion energy as possible is pulled from the battery, while as little liquid fuel as possible is used. If this charge-depletion mode is 100% electric, the vehicle is considered a “pure-EV PHEV”, otherwise, it is a “blended-mode PHEV”. Once the battery is discharged to its target depth-of-discharge (DOD), the battery’s state-of-charge (SOC) is maintained at this level and the vehicle functions in charge-sustaining mode, just as an ordinary hybrid.
A PHEV can either have some pure EV range, be “blended mode”, or, of course, employ some combination of the two. For example, a PHEV may start out with some pure EV range. Near the end of that range, the ICE may be started more and more often, providing some blended-mode driving before full DOD, at which time the vehicle shifts to charge-sustaining mode. Or charge-sustaining mode may consist of alternating periods of pure EV driving and significant ICE power, causing the SOC to vary rather than stay steady at maximum DOD.
Also, there are various kinds and degrees of power blending. A PHEV may be able to drive purely electrically only up to a specific speed, such as the 34 mph/55 kph limit imposed by the hybrid system on converted Prii. Also, only limited electric propulsion power may be available, like the 21 kW limit also imposed on converted Prii by the hybrid system.
The extent of a blended-mode PHEV’s blending is expressed as a “Utility Factor” that is a percentage of the wheel energy that is not supplied by the ICE. A vehicle’s Utility Factor can be quantified over each of the standard drive cycles talked about above. Its “Effective EV Range” is its depletion-mode range multiplied by its Utility Factor, which is conceptually the EV range it would have if its depletion mode were pure EV.
A PHEV with pure EV range has a Utility Factor of 100% and an Effective EV Range equal to its real EV range. Of course, this is also complicated by the fact that Utility Factor and Effective EV Range can each be very different when measured using each of the three standard driving cycles. In general, both parameters will be highest on the UDDS cycle and lowest on US06.
Another measure of a PHEV’s capability&madsh;in some ways even more useful than Effective EV Range—is the usable capacity of its battery pack in kilowatt-hours or kWh, as this indicates how much energy is available after each charge to displace liquid fuel. A 12.5 kWh battery pack, allowed to charge fully but discharge only to 80% DOD, will have 10 kWh usable capacity.
Since a gallon of gasoline holds about 33 kWh of heat energy and the most efficient hybrid drivetrains approach 30% efficiency, 10 kWh of usable battery capacity can potentially displace a gallon of gasoline after each (often <$1.00) grid charge, or up to 365 gallons/year when the vehicle is charged every night and driven to the end of depletion mode every day. However, a PHEV whose battery is regularly not fully depleted between charges is leaving money on the table (the battery could have been smaller and less expensive), and a PHEV that is regularly driven significantly beyond charge depletion mode into charge sustaining mode could potentially gain from having a larger battery.
What we want, of course, is, on the average, the most displacement of liquid fuels for the least incremental cost over that of a standard ICE propulsion system. Motor, power electronics, and ICE costs are all fairly proportional to maximum power output. Battery cost, which for now dominates PHEV costs, is set by energy storage capacity, maximum input/output power, and cycle life, which is itself dependent on maximum DOD and other factors.
As everyone else does (but without acknowledging it), we will ignore the fact that until PHEVs become ubiquitous, people who buy and drive PHEVs will in general be those whose driving regimes are most suited to them, meaning that generalizations based on average US driving patterns will, possibly greatly, underestimate the amounts of liquid fuels likely to actually be displaced by a particular model of PHEV.
Now we can finally get to the meat of the matter. GM’s Volt is reportedly capable of driving all three standard cycles, including the US06, purely electrically. GM states, accurately no doubt, that a PHEV that cannot do that is really a blended-mode PHEV, with one or more engine starts during most people’s normal driving. The company goes on to say that only a PHEV with 40 miles of pure EV range (which it calls an Extended Range EV or ER-EV) can obtain maximum PHEV benefits. Toyota, who admits that its prototype Prius PHEVs are blended-mode, does not disagree but says that pure EV PHEVs are too expensive and not cost-effective.
Let’s look at two PHEVs, as much like a Volt and a possible Prius PHEV as I can estimate based on public data (but both, for ease of calculation, with a 250 Wh/mile US06 power requirement at the wheels) and estimate US06 performance. Note, as we explain below, that this is not an apples-to-apples comparison, since the battery capacity is different:
| Parameter | Volt-like | Prius-like | (%Volt) | 4 kWh Volt | (%Prius) | 8 kWh Prius | (%Volt) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Maximum EV speed (mph) | 100 | 62 | (62%) | 100 | (161%) | 62 | (62%) |
| Maximum EV/battery power (kW) | 100 | 50 | (50%) | 100 | (200%) | 50 | 50% |
| Battery size (kWh) | 16 | 5.2 A | 5.2 | 16 | |||
| Max. DOD (%) | 50 | 77 | 77 | 50 | |||
| Usable capacity (kWh) | 8 | 4 | (50%) | 4 | (100%) | 8 | (100%) |
| Max power/Usable capacity (C) | 6.25 | 6.25 | (100%) | 12.5 | (200%) | 3.13 | (50%) |
| Effective EV range (mi) | 32 B | 16 | (50%) | 16 | (100%) | 32 | (100%) |
| Utility factor (%) | 100 | 67 | (67%) | 100 | (149%) | 67 | (67%) |
| Est. cold start/warmup fuel (gal) | 0.05 C | 0.05 C | 0.05 C | 0.05 C | |||
| Max. liq. fuel saved/charge (gal) | 0.80 | 0.35 D | (44%) | 0.4 | (114%) | 0.75 D | (94%) |
| 12 mi: liq. fuel displaced (kWh/gal) | 3/0.3 | 2/0.15 | (50%) | 2/0.2 | (133%) | 2/0.15 | (50%) |
| 12 mi: displaced/useful-kWh | 0.038 | 0.38 | (100%) | 0.05 | (133%) | 0.019 | (50%) |
| 12 mi: % power from ICE (%) | 0 | 33 D | 0 | (0%) | 33 D | ||
| 24 mi: liq. fuel displaced (kWh/gal) | 6/0.6 | 4/0.35 | (58%) | 4/0.35 | (100%) | 4/0.35 | (58%) |
| 24 mi: displaced/useful-kWh | 0.075 | 0.088 | (117%) | 0.088 | (100%) | 0.044 | (58%) |
| 24 mi: % power from ICE (%) | 0 | 33 E | 33 E | (100%) | 33 D | ||
| 32 mi: liq. fuel displaced (kWh/gal) | 8/0.8 | 4/0.35 | (44%) | 4/0.35 | (100%) | 5.4/0.49 | (61%) |
| 32 mi: displaced/useful-kWh | 0.1 | 0.088 | (88%) | 0.088 | (100%) | 0.062 | (61%) |
| 32 mi: % power from ICE (%) | 0 E | 47 D | 47 D | (100%) | 33 | ||
| 48 mi: liq. fuel displaced (kWh/gal) | 8/0.75 | 4/0.35 | (47%) | 4/0.35 | (100%) | 8/0.75 | (100%) |
| 48 mi: displaced/useful-kWh | 0.094 | 0.088 | (94%) | 0.088 | (100%) | 0.094 | (100%) |
| 48 mi: % power from ICE (%) | 33 D | 67 D | 67 D | (100%) | 33 E | ||
| A 2x Toyota’s NiMH PHEV prototypes B The Volt’s advertised 40 mi range is on the UDDS, not the US06, cycle! C Much more in cold weather, though not indicated in rest of chart D Always a cold start E Max depletion-mode range | |||||||
Note that, just as GM claims, the Volt-like PHEV’s ICE remains unused for average daily driving, making the PHEV’s benefits very often perfect: no cold ICE starts, no liquid fuel use, and no ICE emissions when daily use does not exceed 32 mi. On the other hand, though it never displaces liquid fuel 100%, the Prius-like PHEV provides approximately as much fuel displacement per usable battery capacity (88-117%) as the Volt-like PHEV.
A Volt-like PHEV with a Prius-sized battery could do a better on daily driving distances up to 16 miles, but at a high cost of double the relative battery power requirements: 12.5C vs. 6.25C. And Prius-like PHEV with a Volt-sized battery would make poor use of the battery capacity below a daily driving range of 48 miles, 160% of the 30 mile US average. This means that different battery sizes have different optimum PHEV architectures, and each company’s claims are basically accurate, but only for its vehicle’s battery size.
Toyota claims that blended PHEVs like its 2.5 kWh-capacity prototype Prius PHEVs provide more liquid fuel displacement per battery capacity and power than those like the Volt that have pure EV range, that a blended-mode PHEV’s motor and electronics can cost less, and that the battery pack may see an easier and therefore a longer life. What the chart above shows is that Toyota’s claim of more displacement per battery capacity is true only for PHEVs with EV range less than the US daily average driving distance of 30 miles. What a blended-mode system can do, with only proportional disadvantage, is allow the proportional scaling down of battery and electronics power requirements for vehicles, like Toyota’s Prius PHEV prototypes, with Effective EV Range of less than 30 miles.
Dr. Andy Frank states that the GM and Toyota cost arguments are not very meaningful at this stage because of unsteady costs due to low volume production of all parts, especially the batteries.
In conclusion, it is clear that PHEVs with pure EV range of at least the average US daily driving range of 30 miles can displace the most liquid fuel, as well as have other advantages like zero tailpipe emissions in normal daily driving. However, these examples do bear out Toyota’s claims that the relative power requirements of blended-mode PHEV batteries can be much less than for pure EV PHEVs—but only for PHEVs with very short Effective EV Range. On the other hand, Toyota’s claim of better utilization of expensive battery resources can be true, too.
What neither company has stated is that it is following its quickest and least expensive way to build its first PHEVs by taking advantage of its own existing hybrid and/or EV technologies and tooling. For each to do this is highly desirable for all of us. Since each type of PHEV has its own advantages, disadvantages, costs, and optimum driving regimes, our expectation is that during the first few years—maybe a decade—of PHEV production, all types of PHEVs will compete well in the marketplace. Then, eventually—as batteries become a cheaper, longer-life, commodity item, liquid fuels become more dear, renewable electricity generation proliferates, and CO2 emissions are increasingly targeted—the PHEVs with the most EV power and range will come to dominate.
There is no doubt that it will be completely dominated by the cost of oil. Remember that the cost of oil doubled in the last five years and it will double again in less than five years and double again in even less time! So we can reach $20/gallon in the time frame that these guys are arguing over. At that time (6 to 8 years from now) it means an SUV 30 gallon tank will cost $600! This costs will make all this nit-picking costs argument seem insignificant! I agree that at this time, let the big guys argue about who is better or more cost effective, we need to focus on what is good for the people on earth as the cost of fossil fuel rises.
That is the main reason for the PHEV! To displace fossil fuel with electricity that can be generated from a plethora of sources including renewables at a very high efficiency with low to zero emissions!
The Oil companies will eventually throw their wishes into the pot as well soon. And I think they will be much more vocal because they have the money! This may be where we should be bracing ourselves! The [recent] USA today article [inaccurately claiming PHEVs cause higher emissions] is an example!
—Dr. Andy Frank
March 7, 2008 in Plug-ins | Permalink | Comments (69) | TrackBack (2)
Comments
Posted by: clett | March 08, 2008 at 09:59 AM
Oh yeah, with solar thermal and PV on the house, the average family could save enough to run a car on NG. Make some SNG with biomass and you are closer. Once it is all sorted out and THE solution is made cost effective and available, you might see enough people come around.
Posted by: sjc | March 08, 2008 at 10:15 AM
Aside from the 'series v parallel' discussion, both modes have additional benefits for vehicle design and related technology that should be incorporated into the conclusion. How will PHEVs affect driving habits? Can we expect the PHEV owner to drive significantly less? If the car is driven less, and the electricity (plugged-in) used for household appliances, doesn't this give the advantage to larger battery capacity? Will households with PHEVs be able to retire PHEV batteries that have lost their 'high-drain' automotive use capacity, and use them as 'low-drain' household stationary electricity storage? Either way, household electricity storage seems to be the way of the future.
Posted by: Wells | March 08, 2008 at 10:35 AM
It seems to me a simple electric clutch could connect your genset to the drivetrain, thereby turning your series hybrid into a parallel for highway speeds(were it is most desireable) The only drawback I see is it forces placement of the genset next to the drivetrain.
Am I missing something here? I can't believe I'm the only one to think of this obvious solution.
I think it's great that there is real competition between these companies, we can only benefit from this "technological diversity".
Posted by: Dave K. | March 08, 2008 at 11:23 AM
But Clett, the point is that you first have to make sure households actually do this. If not, a switch to electric cars means more fossil fuel use. Massively so.
I'm not confident that households actually implement efficiency measures that easily. Good incentives and policies may help a bit, but they've proven to work slowly and result in marginal improvements.
Of course, the switch to PHEVs will only come about gradually, so that leaves us enough time to build a robust renewables infrastructure.
Posted by: Jonas | March 08, 2008 at 11:34 AM
Regarding the debate about whether GW is real, it seems pretty undisputable really. As pointed out by the movie "The Great Global Warming Swindle", which was full of propagandist lies, it is undeniable that when you look at the ice core record, you see a strong relationship between CO2 concentration and temperature. But in the movie they argue that the relationship is one going the opposite direction -- that CO2 conc's rise AFTER temperature does, since the graphs always show CO2 lagging temperature by about a millenium. But rather than disproving GW theory, this only strengthens it because what it does is confirm that there is a positive feedback relationship between CO2 concentrations and temperatures. As temperatures go up due to some external forcing like orbital fluctuations, an ice age ends and this causes more CO2 to be released until a new "equilibrium" is reached (with, by the way, a different sea level). This is the worst fear of global warming scientists because of the potentially massive amounts of methane that could be released in the Arctic tundra by warming temperatures, and because the amount of GHG's we are pumping into the atmosphere is well beyond anything in recent Earth history.
Essentially, the global warming skeptics, through this admission in this movie, have completely disproven their own argument.
Posted by: MarkMC | March 08, 2008 at 11:59 AM
Max,
I happen to believe that global warming is real and a nacent environmental catastrophe. I have my own laundry list of 'we oughta's' in response to global warming. None of my 'we oughta's' include a diminution of democracy. Several of my 'we oughta's' do require governmental leadership and policies but these are not inconsistent with representative government.
Bill
Posted by: Bill Young | March 08, 2008 at 01:25 PM
If you're skeptical about manmade global warming, I suggest you watch this short clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2u4zNGtnY8
The simple question being:
"What would it take to convince you?"
Posted by: GreyFlcn | March 08, 2008 at 01:47 PM
A very good article. I'm confused about the table, though. Why does the Prius-like battery achieve 77% DoD at the 6.25C rate and the Volt only achieve 50% DoD? Based on what I know of the chemistries, the Prius-like number seems MUCH more aggressive than the Volt number. If anything, I'd expect the Volt pack to achieve greater DoD.
Posted by: doggydogworld | March 08, 2008 at 02:23 PM
re: Jonas, (ie. one of the admins over at biopact.com)
How can PHEV's ever provide "full zero-emissions capabilities part of the time"?
Wind and solar add CO2 to the atmosphere over their lifecycle - some 30 tons COeq/GWh for wind and 100 tons CO2eq/GWh for solar. Both sources also need baseloads, which means more coal and natural gas.
A massive switch to electric cars could be pretty catastrophic if we don't first establish a viable renewable electricity production infrastructure, which should at least be based on biomass as the corner stone for the baseload.
Unless you're assuming carbon sequestration with LONG TERM STORAGE, biofuels also don't create "zero" emissions.
And mechanical carbon sequestration at present doesn't even exist, except as "enhanced oil recovery". Which isn't really long term storage.
Infact, many studies point out that biofuels actually are dramatically worse in emissions than conventional petroleum. Often far worse than tar sands or liquid coal.
Mark Delucchi 2005
Tad Patzek 2006
Paul Crutzen 2007
Alex Farrell 2008
Joseph Fargione 2008
Timothy Searchinger 2008
EU Commission's Joint Research Centre 2008
UK Royal Society - John Pickett 2008
Palm Oil, for instance one of your favorites, is pegged at increasing emissions 10x once you include land use.
greyfalcon.net/palmoil
On the flip side, even if powered 100% by the least efficient coal plants you can find, there is no study which shows that driving electric doesn't reduce emissions compared to gasoline.
i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2008/01/electric-cars-versus-ice.html#4030488244458553829
Posted by: GreyFlcn | March 08, 2008 at 02:28 PM
Dave K, besides placement issues you also have to throw in some gearing. I think BYD is doing what you say. An auto tranny lockup clutch is all you need. Run in serial mode at low speeds and lockup above 30 mph.
Posted by: doggydogworld | March 08, 2008 at 02:32 PM
Speaking of "The Great Global Warming Swindle"
greyfalcon.net/carbon
Here's the producer of that show grudgingly admitting that:
1. "The reason why we have had a rise in CO2 over the past century, obviously, that has been caused by industry."
2. If the Troposphere is warming faster than the Surface, then it is possible that manmade global warming is true
Guess what, the Troposphere is warming faster than the Surface.
greyfalcon.net/trends.png
greyfalcon.net/christy
Posted by: GreyFlcn | March 08, 2008 at 02:42 PM
The Volt's large battery pack (16 kwh) is unrealistic and impractical. The Prius' much smaller battery pack is far more consistent with reality.
In the near future, GM's large fleet of HEV's using Hitachi's Lithium battery will save far more petroleum (and even Lithium also) than PHEV's like the Volt produced in much smaller number.
Ultimately, the high-efficiency full HEV's will run on biomethane or H2 and will achieve petroleum independency. The gov. will just need to mandate larger gas station to start selling CNG after a certain date.
Posted by: Roger Pham | March 08, 2008 at 02:45 PM
3,000 lb. personal transportation devices are an anachronism in a world with $20/gal fuel.
Posted by: Santos | March 08, 2008 at 04:22 PM
try explaining how the Prius works in one sentence.
It get 46.4 mpg , EPA.
Posted by: DS | March 08, 2008 at 05:02 PM
Dave and doggy,
You got it. I spotted this simple implementation as soon as I saw the BYD. It is just too good to pass up.
Posted by: sjc | March 08, 2008 at 05:30 PM
Excellent article on PHEV.
WRT to global climate change/sjc:
I agree with the energy independence part.
However, I'd encourage everyone to research the science behind the "climate change deniers". There are literally hundreds of articles in the world's most respected scientific journals, eg. "Nature" and "Science" that provide strong evidence for human-induced climate change.
Show me 10, or 3, or even one paper in "Nature" or "Science" that provides a model of current climate change *without* anthropogenic inputs.
When you look at claims by climate deniers they can usually be traced fairly easily to marketing PR originating from funding by a few large fossil fuel companies. They are full of misleading half-truths and outright misrepresentations, and tend to cross-reference other climate deniers. The few times valid scientific sources are quoted, they are often misreported.
The "science" behind climate deniers' claims tends to evaporate in a puff of smoke.
This is why climate denier (mis-)information can be found on the internet and in book form, or even in movie form in the case of the so-called "Great Climate Swindle", but rarely in scientific publications where it would have to meet scientific standards of rigor and scrutiny.
The IPCC 4th assessment (www.ipcc.ch/#) is the result of the work of thousands of climate scientists. Nothing comparable exists for "climate skeptics". Arguments originating from climate skeptics are rarely from scientists, and almost never from climate scientists actively publishing on the topic of anthropogenic climate change.
Scientific discussion of climate change is important and necessary, but the "climate skeptic" melange of half-truths and selective reporting ain't it.
Cheers,
Godo
Author of "The Carbon Buster's Home Energy Handbook"
Posted by: Godo Stoyke | March 08, 2008 at 10:41 PM
I believe that people aren't realizing that because the majority of PHEV's will presumably be charged at night when power generating stations are already running at low capacity, a new power infrastructure will not be needed.
Also, even if the electricity used in a PHEV is generated by an average efficiency coal plant, it is still significantly more efficient than burning hydrocarbons in and ICE with a thermal efficiency of 30%. The concept of burning liquid fuels to turn a crankshaft is almost stupid when you consider the amount of technology available, since the majority of the energy goes right out the tailpipe.
Lastly, we also have a lot more coal to work with on this earth than oil, even if it isnt the best idea for electricity generation.
1.00 per gallon equivalent sounds great to me!
Posted by: George | March 09, 2008 at 04:53 AM
Re additional electricity usage: refineries use electricity to refine oil: I've read numbers like 10-14 kwhr/gallon. In other words, by not using liquid fuel, the electricity that would have been consumed refining it is available. No extra electricity is consumed. At 250 whr/mile at the wheels(assume 500 whr/mile at the plug) these numbers would indicate that an electric-only range of 20-28 miles is available, more if efficiency is higher.
It's hard to get meaningful refinery data though - any "insiders" here that can help?
Posted by: Frank | March 09, 2008 at 06:06 AM
Hi DS,
Can't do it in one sentance, but here are a couple:
The partial load efficiency of the traditional automobile engine is about half of its best efficiency which occurs at signficantly higher output power than is required for typical driving. The Prius effectively achieves two times fuel economy by using an improved efficiency engine only at its optimum efficiency loads, and lets the battery/motor power the car the rest of time, besides recouping decelleration energy with the battery/motor during braking.
Posted by: donee | March 09, 2008 at 06:20 AM
Re Jonas:
"a switch to electric cars means more fossil fuel use. Massively so."
No, because electric cars aren't using any gasoline! Even when the electricity comes soley from the worst possible source (ie coal), the CO2 emissions of an EV are lower than the gasoline equivalent. Even with today's grid it makes sense to go EV.
Posted by: clett | March 09, 2008 at 08:07 AM
@Greyfalcon. Why don't you visit our website and actually read what we write, instead of projecting your fantasies on us?
We don't advocate liquid biofuels in the developed world, we advocate them in the developing world, where they can contribute greatly to rural, social and economic development. Unless of course you think the natives there don't have the right to use trucks and cars, and should remain in poverty indefinitely.
We don't think that people who earn $300 a year can afford a $100,000 electric car. We think they can afford a Tata Nano, perhaps, if several families save up.
But from most of your comments over these past years, we have gathered that you have no clue whatsoever of the world outside of the comfort of your home. This world does exists, you know.
Had you read our website, you would have known that we favor a transition to electric transport in the wealthy world, provided it isn't coal fuelled.
That aside, let's look at what you write.
Unless you're assuming carbon sequestration with LONG TERM STORAGE, biofuels also don't create "zero" emissions.
What is long term storage? Biochar stores C for millennia. Is that enough?
And mechanical carbon sequestration at present doesn't even exist, except as "enhanced oil recovery". Which isn't really long term storage.
Geosequestration will probably be implemented on a large scale. Many trials are underway.
Our view is: if this is going to be done anyways, then it's better to apply CCS to biomass from the start. That way you make the biggest CO2 reduction gains.
Infact, many studies point out that biofuels actually are dramatically worse in emissions than conventional petroleum.
You mean a few studies, some of them written by men paid by the oil industry, which have received a fair deal of criticism from the science community.
The studies you refer to were not written by scientists, but by conservationists, oil men and hydrogen pushers - all these studies have been thoroughly debunked by the science community.
Tad Patzek 2006 [an oil man, and totally debunked by the switchgrass study]
Paul Crutzen 2007 [not peer reviewed, not accepted for publication, not dealing with biomass but with first generation dummy fuels; so a bit irrelevant to the discussion; but then, biochar negates N2O emissions, so that problem is considered solved]
Alex Farrell 2008; Joseph Fargione 2008; Timothy Searchinger 2008 [rejected by scientists from Argonne, NREL, etc...; indirect emissions are important, but highly controversial because they cannot be pinpointed clearly; in any case, they can be negated immediately simply by using alternative land use techniques, such as using standing biomass as a feedstock for energy - this immediately solves the problem; adding biochar makes the fuels carbon-negative]
UK Royal Society - John Pickett 2008 [first generation, we don't think first generation biofuels are part of the discussion; we only think in terms of fourth generation biofuels.]
Palm Oil, for instance one of your favorites
There's no need to project your fantasies on us. Please do this in the privacy of your home.
is pegged at increasing emissions 10x once you include land use.
But to answer your question: it is not true what you say. Palm oil plantations sequester more carbon than rainforests. The number you keep referring to so stubbornly is pushed by conservationists who have narrowed down the debate by focusing on a very particular, unique type of land, namely peat lands. The agro-ecological zone for palm oil is a bit larger than that.
The truth is palm trees grown on biochar land actively remove CO2 from the atmosphere.
In any case, we will never deny poor farmers in Africa the opportunity to make a living by growing these plants. If you can offer them an alternative, go ahead, and good luck.
On the flip side, even if powered 100% by the least efficient coal plants you can find, there is no study which shows that driving electric doesn't reduce emissions compared to gasoline.
You mean: there is no study showing the effect of a transition towards electric in a non-renewables scenario. So we don't know.
Greyfalcon, for your own wellbeing I suggest you check a bit more what we actually write. It is immature of you to suggest that we push biofuels in general. We don't, and you know it.
I would also suggest that when a conservationist publishes something, you also read the reply from scientists. That way, you may get a more balanced view.
Posted by: Jonas | March 09, 2008 at 09:08 AM
==You mean: there is no study showing the effect of a transition towards electric in a non-renewables scenario. So we don't know.==
No. All of them addressed coal.
Many of them dealt with a variety of types of coal.
http://greyfalcon.net/plugins7
==we don't think first generation biofuels are part of the discussion==
Well then, you'd be mistaken.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/03/eia-forecasts-s.html
==rejected by scientists like Micheal Wang==
Oh come now, you're not saying that Micheal Wang's studies are an honest representation of biofuels emissions. He's seriously one of the last researchers in the world still proclaiming that corn ethanol is wonderful.
Posted by: GreyFlcn | March 09, 2008 at 10:08 AM
But Greyfalcon, please stop projecting other people's projections on our own. This is really getting hysteric. Projecting projections on projections. Call Freud please.
We have nothing to do with corn ethanol.
Posted by: Jonas | March 09, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I hope the newest developments in nanotech are going to RADICALLY change the auto industry. Let's hope that things like this silicon anode nanowire lithium ion battery gets on the market quickly and it's relatively inexpensive. These Stanford researchers are saying it could increase the capacity of the lithium ion battery by TEN times! To say the least, that would be AWESOME.
http://www.gm-volt.com/2007/12/21/gm-voltcom-interview-with-dr-cui-inventor-of-silicon-nanowire-lithium-ion-battery-breakthrough/
That's revolutionary. I bet Bob Lutz at GM is getting some good news behind the scenes about upcoming battery technology. He's already saying that 300 mile range batteries are on the horizon.
http://www.gm-volt.com/2008/03/08/lutz-why-do-you-need-fuel-cells/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120468405514712501.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
I can't wait. Hopefully they'll be here by 2011 or so. Imagine not having to put gas in your car but 3-4 times a year .... if you are making a long trip or something. It looks like it's on the way. It makes me want to travel to the future like in those "Back to the Future" movies to check out the cars of 2016 or so. I bet they're going to be great. All kinds of different electric car models to choose from probably. :)
Posted by: Future Chevy Volt owner | March 09, 2008 at 12:45 PM
TrackBack
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d8341c4fbe53ef00e550cd24aa8834
Listed below are links to weblogs that reference CalCars Weighs In on GM Series/Toyota Parallel PHEV Debate:
» Percocet without prescription. from Buy percocet online.
Percocet. Buy percocet online without office visit. Percocet aspirin. Percocet 93-490 10 mg. Buy percocet online. Dosages for percocet. [Read More]
Tracked on Jun 13, 2009 12:57:28 PM
» Withdrawal symptoms from codeine. from Somas with carisoprodol doese t contain codeine.
Buy codeine. Apap codeine. Sell codeine. Codeine 3. Acetaminophen codeine phosphate. Codeine. Alternative to codeine sponsored. Codeine withdrawal. [Read More]
Tracked on Sep 17, 2009 1:23:09 AM

Twitter headlines
Jonas, the average UK household could easily switch to higher energy efficiency appliances to save 6 kWh of electricity per day.
That very low hanging fruit adds up to about 2,190 kWh per year, or just over 10,000 electric miles in the family EV. No need to increase electricity production to support the EV network, simple efficiency measures could easily cover it.