I too have been following EEstor.
Seems that some people would have EEstor reveal everything for our entertainment.
What possible advantage would they have to reveal anything? When and if the time comes we will find out if it is true, or vaporware.
I see no possible advantage in revealing anything to potential competitors.
Would GM invite every one in to look over the details of the Volt or any other model under development?
Does Itel publish the details of chips under development?
"It can't be done" or does that mean we cannot build one.
A capacitor is just an electrical component.
Look at Hard Disk drives: 20 years ago there were no
40 Gigabite disk drives that you could hold in your hand.
Color Picture tubes..Oh we use another technology today,
Same for the camera tube, now it is solid state.
Look at computer memory. My first computer had 16k, now I run 1 GB.
"A scam" Precisely whom is getting scammed?

Treehugger - although correct to say EEStor does not break laws of physics it is incorrect to say barium titanate dielectric constant is "3 order of magnitude above best currently used dielectric". This is because barium titanate IS a currently used dielectric, if fact it's quite common in today's ceramic capacitors.

The problem with barium titanate is a low breakdown voltage of just a few volts. EEStor has not disclosed how they avoid breakdown at several thousand volts. There is some talk of coating BaTiO3 particles with a material that resists breakdown, unfortunately this almost certainly destroys the high dielectric constant. More interesting is EEStor's focus on purity. Some physical properties change in high purity environments -- the classic example is high purity water which can remain liquid even when supercooled to -40. Getting back to electricity, note that clouds passing over a flat field can build up much more internal charge than clouds over land with "impurities" such as trees or towers.

Has EEStor seen tiny lab samples of ultra-high purity BaTiO3 resist breakdown at very high voltages? This makes more sense to me than the "scam" theory -- EEStor principals have legitimate backgrounds and are not doing the things scammers normally do. That said, their founding patent is a joke and their failure to demo even a small working prototype after all these years creates a lot of doubt. My best guess says they are simply unable to build a real device which retains the properties they observed under carefully controlled laboratory conditions.

I share the skepticism of most here. It has nothing to do with capacitors, but with the crashworthiness of the current ZENN car. This announcement means one of two things:

1. They will indeed run a car at 80mph but it will be a completely different vehicle, it will cost a lot more that $12,000 and there is no way they can deliver it by Fall 2009. or,

2. It's a hoax to pump up share prices.

AFAIK EEStor is not a publicly traded company so whose stock is being jacked up. Is it Lockheed-Martin? Is it Zenn? Do they have boiler room brokers calling widows to sell overpriced shares at high commission?
What has been happening is an overoptimistic MBA ignoring the statements of generally pessimistic engineers.

Stock went up about 1/3 on the news.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=znn

"Couldn't they just take one of their existing NEVs, and chuck a capacitor right on to it?"

I don't think it is going to be quite that easy. Clearly a capacitor can be used to store energy, but I've been puzzled for some time now about how they are going to make a capacitor discharge behave like a battery (without creating a large ceramic heater).

Any ideas?

"Many here are very ready to criticize the regular automakers who are ivesting Billions of dollars in electrified vehicles."

Haha... Like the EV1s that they destroyed? Or the billions of tax payer dollars given to American automakers to research and develop hybrid vehicles during the Clinton administration that was dropped when Texas Oil Jr took office?

Yes. We should not be overly critical of some idiots that would not accept ~2 million dollars not to crush a bunch of EV1s. HOW DARE US NOT TRUST THEM.

"It is about two or three generations of press releases past time for this particular group of hucksters to pack up and slink away. Put up; or shut up."

Hopefully you'll reserve the same level of scorn for GM if they fail to release the Volt in 2010.

doggydogworld

You are right Titanate barrium is currently used in capacitor, I meant compared to more usual dielectrics. I am enclined to agree with your hypothesis abaout EESTOR, they might have observed some outsanding property at vey high purity adn then have problem to make it in volume, well we have to wait a couple more years to find out if there is something behind all this.

@treehugger

Their behaviour is completely consistent with your theory. Their last announcement a couple of months ago was exactly about being able to produce very high purity barium titanate in volume.

It seems to me that they have passed that problem and now gearing for mass prodction.

EESTOR makes complete sense by not revealing anything, only the most important milestones for their investors. Take a look at what happened to very important inventions when he oil companies decided to take steps against them. (The lucky ones were bought and put on shelves)

EEstor's original Venture Capital firm considered them a "high risk" investment. That's fair. TreeHugger's theory sounds very plausible.

What bothers me is that ZEN and Lockheed haven't tested anything. The sums aren't large. A couple million from Zen. An unknown sum from the first round VC, and Lockheed. 2 of 3 known investors can afford to place longshot bets, on the off chance it pays. Zen is betting their company.

That said, global Lithium Carbonate production probably can't build more than a few million 10 KwH batteries, so we need other good choices. Integration of supercapacitors and various battery chemistries should make for some long-lasting PHEV20 batteries.

My hope is that EEstor, or someone like them, can produce a good enough capacitor to mitigate the lifespan concerns of some of the higher energy density batteries.

"Or the billions of tax payer dollars given to American automakers to research and develop hybrid vehicles during the Clinton administration that was dropped when Texas Oil Jr took office?"

Huh?? If they were "given" the money during one Admin - how does the next take it back - exactly? Magic? Hybrid Restitution Tax? Or were these billions just a a pucker in one eye?

Taxmangoeth... I believe he is refering to the research that was dropped. Don't you remember the push for 80 mpg? They were actually coming up with ideas that were way more efficient than what was currently being offered. Then, BOOM!!! All of that is now a memory.

For the longest time up until VERY recently its been a fight to see who could make more cupholders. I don't like the whole clinton administration but at least that is one thing that was a worthy mention. So now what do we do??? Pray for the best and plan for the worst. I am trying to keep my 92 and 89 honda's in good running condition until somebody actually comes up with a serial hybrid or reasonable electric car. My fingers are crossed for eestor but this is getting soooo tiring waiting for "just around the corner".

See the wikipedia article on EEStor for details on why it's impossible:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEstor#Permittivity_Questions

The ZENN Electric Car is already a perfect solution for folks who have a minimal commute and are tired of paying increasingly high prices for gasoline, and especially for those who care about lowering emissions and GHGs.

My customers average about 500 miles per month driving their ZENNs and absolutely adore this mode of transportation! Currently two states (WA and MT - with more following) have created a new vehicle classification for "Medium Speed Vehicles" so that these cars can be driven legally at 35 mph, and therefore travel on roads with speed postings of 45 mph.

Environmental Motors is spearheading an initiative for NHTSA to create a new national MSV classification at the Federal level. I encourage everyone to visit our website and sign the petition, and ask all your friends to do the same. Our political machine needs to know that “we the people” want more practical options for solving the energy and environment crises. Please contact all your government representatives and let them know you want to drive an electric car TODAY.

Technology has now surpassed government laws, and it's time to get everyone up to speed. PLEASE sign our petition and help get more electric cars on the road again!

http://www.environmentalmotors.com/EVMNews.php

Zenn still needs a stylist on staff. Until the vehicles look a whole lot better, they will not sell in volume.

The Zenn is whacked on the inside. Not worth the money. And it's definately not a car replacement. I consider myself pretty green, but I'm disappointed in this one...
I liked the realistic take Kelly had:
http://www.kbb.com/kbb/NewsAndReviews/VideoLibrary.aspx?WebAssetId=366774&Path=Videos&SortExpression=0&PageIndex=19&SelectedTabIndex=1&PlaySlideShow=true&Filter=HasVideoReview&SelectionHistory=0%7c27106%7c92606%7c100%7c10%7c

Hello,
I am involvee with a new motor technology (SEMA) www.lynxmotiontechnology.com We believe it to be far superior in every aspect to your current motor. We can demonstrate at any time.