Quoth Roger Pham:

You put your bet on CAES (Compressed Air Energy Storage)?

Not a bet, just a recognition that capital cost and engineering feasibility are in its favor.

Using the data you supplied, as it costs 7% of the energy of H2 to compress it (to 5000 psi), meaning after substracting efficiency lost during the compression process, about 5% of mechanical energy is available in the compressed H2 at 5000 psi.

True.  Also irrelevant; the FCV isn't going to be using the mechanical expansion energy, so it's wasted.

A 160 liter Quantum carbon fiber H2 tank costs ~$2000.

You'll need much larger ones at H2 filling stations.  CAES systems will be using underground caverns, porous rock strata, and other cheap media instead of high-tech tanks.

You'd be lucky if you can even charge your PHEV 1/2 of the time with solar or wind electricity, while the other 1/2 of the time, the utility company must burn the stored H2 to provide you with electricity.

Your faulty thinking is on display right there.

1. Far more than half of the electricity will be consumed directly for its final use, via e.g. ice-storage systems for A/C.  Storage for re-conversion to electricity will be the minimum required.
2. Utility companies won't be using H2 for storage at all.

Dear Congresspeople,
I don't understand why some of you seem to be arguing "either or". Everything that I have learned so far about energy infrastructure technology and economy seems to point to increasing diversification. Various energy requirements are most economically met by various energy technologies.

Personally, I am hoping that some of the "competing" technologies will also combine to form synergies. For example, IIRC one of the current compressed air energy storage facilities uses the compressed air together with natural gas to run a turbine. Apparently there is some advantage from this. Perhaps instead of natural gas, hydrogen could be used together with compressed air to run a turbine advantageously.

By the way, is there a chemist out there who could tell me if hydrogen could be used to synthesize cleaner liquid fuels such as DME from biomass?

is there a chemist out there who could tell me if hydrogen could be used to synthesize cleaner liquid fuels such as DME from biomass?

There is H2CAR, but some think it's bogus.

This is alot like the fallout forums... No matter what you say h2 is still going to make big money and spread farther and farther as the years go by. I will enjoy the ride... assuming the world doesnt BECOME fallout.. and if it does ill mutate and eat you all so its win win for me realy.. assuming you taste good that is...

Fred H,
I'm discussing long-term energy storage, for which neither CAES, battery, nor hydrostatic storages will suffice. For short term electrical energy storage, any of the above has proven to be effective and should continue to be used.

wintermane

You seem to be looking forward to eating people during the big crash. That isn’t real healthy. Go to the supermarket and get some chocolate; lots of chocolate. You may avoid the head shrinker bills that way. (-:

Fred H:

Multi fuel source works for electrical generation, but not in the transportation segment. To do that, you need a Swiss army knife of an engine. As a consumer, I would love that. Like E85 but lots more fuel types. It might happen, it’s technically feasible, but I doubt they’ll make it.

@ Roger Pham

The correct analysis of the Country bumkin as follows

- The Country Bumkin – Someone from the country that dislikes windmills : aka Kit P

- His description – a derogatory depiction of his attitude.

- The windmill description – A beautiful thing of nature.

You engineers must have not done too well in English lit class, or if it is me, I will try to improve? (-:

Hi Axil, thanks for your feedback. Admittedly, my English lit skill is a bit rusty.

But, I used to live in rural area for a long while back, and I have better opinion of rural folks than the usual stereotype. Due to mechanized farming practice, modern US farmers are pretty sophisticated folks, well-versed in the use of technology to improve productivity, and have adapted their aesthetical taste to appreciate smooth and curvaceous mechanical structures.

Thousands of dollars yearly in royalty for each wind turbine in their farm will bring back more money for farmers than even growing crop in the same land area. And with diesel prices at $4 to $5 a gallon, being able to use wind-generated electricity to power their farm machinery will make those wind turbines look very pretty indeed, for a long time to come!