The good news is that the high gas prices will likely take care of the environmental problems given that the most likely alternatives to dino juice are much cleaner. We just need to stay away from CTL, bitumen and carogen.

Neil:

I share your opinion but will we stay away from CTL, Tar sands bitumen and carogen and corn ethanol?

It seems that we feel much stronger about our pocketbook than the negative impacts on the environment.

What is best for the country? Higher fuel retail price ($2.00+/ Liter) with Oil at $200+/barrel (and huge Oil Cos profits) or higher fuel retail price ($2.00 +/Liter) with Oil at $150/barrel and a carbon tax equivalent to $50/barrel?

Revenues from a carbon tax can be easily redistributed while Oil Cos increased revenues are mostly untouchable.

Hopefully, our children may feel and act differently.

hm $1.48L around here, lucky i drive a salvage prius LOL

plus getting an electric bike too! for only less than 1000 bucks! less if i bargin good enough

more reasons to hypermile

Polls are notorious for their ability to acheive nearly any desired outcome, they are very dependant on the question, the order he question is asked (context) events surrounding the issue (timing) among others often an be construced to achieve the desired outcome (push polling).
Conveniently both studies 48% had no opinion,
If there were 3 questions asked of each re the economy, price of gas (tie at 18%) and the environment, I would consider that alone is flawed . The complication is flawed, and leading.
That the changing trend suggests that iming may play a prt . If people are nervous about the release of a report which is expected to have serious implications, then that is likely to be expressed above he long term trend.
This type of analysis comes well withn the fist rule of statistics .Lies dam lies -and -statistics.
Garbage in garbage out.
Secondly it makes the idea of asking the foxes if ' they think they should be in charge of the hen house' is a mindless pastime rather than meaningfull analysis.

In my more pessimistic moments I think people will do whatever it takes to continue the happy motoring wonderland, including sacrificing climate stability and the well-being of future generations. We live in the best of times and the worst of times, I hope those of us in the wealthier countries are sane enough to push hard for a better alternative to the ICE.

High gas prices will be (and should be) addressed first because we feel much stronger about our pocketbook and about where all the money we pay for gas is going (overseas) than the negative impacts on the environment.
We need solar and wind and CTL and bitumen and cellulosic ethanol and nuclear and almost anything else that makes economic sense.
We must reduce US carbon but not regardless of the impact on the our economy. That is short sighted and, will not sell. World wide carbon reduction is needed but obviously difficult.
Oh and Hypermiling? Dangerous, selfish and juvenile.

Although the goal is good and shared by all the opposition parties, ie reduction of ghg emissions, I have always been concerned that the electorate would turn away from the carbon tax proposal of Dion's Liberals. I realize that committed environmentalists view those that are reliant on their vehicles as selfish and many are but many simply don't have a choice. Rural Canadians have no real access to efficient public transit and suburban commuters often can't afford to buy homes closer to their work and again have limited access to decent transit. Combine the rising fuel costs with the inevitable rise in food and heating costs and there will be a lot of Canadians who will feel very real economic pain. My fear is that voters will turn to the Cons because people will always put the needs of their children over the needs of future grand and great-grand kids.

Of course there are other ghg reduction plans. The NDP's cap and trade would set a hard cap on emissions, through the trade of credits give industry time to adjust to the new reality, provide government with revenue to put towards improved rail and transit, fund green collar job strategies, help individuals with rebates on green purchases (green cars, better heating/cooling systems, geothermal, solar, wind, etc.). This system combined with the rest of the NDP environment plan (conservation, support for local and smaller food production and distribution, water protection, etc.), IMHO is the most comprehensive plan of the political parties in the House of Commons.

All of us (environmentalists included) need a plan that balances the needs of the environment with the economy and the ability of the government to lead on the greening of Canada. If we don't get this balance right we risk having no effect on the environment (critics are already saying that Dion's plan will likely do little to reduce overall emissions) and/or harming the economy which could drive the average Canadian away from doing more the environment and/or a revenue neutral carbon tax will drain the government treasury and limit the federal government's ability to help municipal governments and individual's make better, greener choices.

All this to say, as a Canadian who cares about the environment I want a plan that has sticks and carrots for industry and lots of carrots for individuals. This is what I think will work and we need a plan that will work.

ToppaTom...fuel high price should be addressed first .... regardless of the environment...?

Yes, you can rest assured that Oil speculators + OPEP + Oil Cos will make your wish come true soon enough.

They will certainly address fuel price, but it may not be in the direction you will like.

At $200+/barrel, USA's annual trade deficit will go over $1000 billions. Most of NY City commercial properties (or others) will have to be sold to foreign Oil money funds to keep the dollar from going below 1/2 one Euro.

With the USD value going down further, the International Speculated Oil price will move up some more and the price at the pump may hit $8 devalued USD/gallon sooner than you think.

That's what will be called (for many) addressing the gas price in the right direction. One of the positive effect will be a (forced) reduction in consumption and less GHG.

It may be wise to get rid of your gas guzzlers (even at half price) if you can find buyers. Those used Dinosaurs are going to be a dim a dozen within a few months/years. New Dodge Ram V-8, 1500 extended cabs are offered locally with a $15,500 discount but nobody is buying them. That must be below factory cost.

jaybird:

I'm not a Liberal or Dion's fan but his proposed progressive (over 4 years) carbon tax would not be imposed on gas because the current Fed Gas tax is already equivalent to the $40/tonne proposed carbon tax.

That being said, the carrot will be a general Income Tax reduction + large financial support (up to $5K) for electrified vehicle buyers. All the estra $14 billion/year revenues would be redistributed with the above (and similar) measures.

Of course Coal, NG & Oil people and associated speculators do not like it because fossil fuel consumption (price & huge profits) would go down. GHG would also go down and we would all be healthier.

The only real loosers would be the fossil fuel people mentionned in the above paragraft.

Yes HarveyD. We do have some tough choices. Tougher, because the housing collapse, high oil/gas prices, domestic car sales and models and slow economy are all coming together.
But implying that, speculators are responsible is at best only partly true. Without oil speculators, gas prices might not yet be high enough to force pursuit of more sources (some good /clean, some not so good). Likewise oil speculation can create a droop in oil prices long before more drilling actually brings more oil to market. Speculation does not necessarily boost price, rather it makes the high price start sooner and end sooner. Without an effective long term public policy, the free market (with the "anticipation" of speculators) is all we have.

Well, I'm just happy all I have to worry about is my paycheck for dreaming up virtual disaster models. My boss told me if I don't make 'em depressing enough - it would be the axe for me! That IS depressing.