litesong-

you are correct that we can support the loads if we are more efficient with our electricity usage. the big question is that if..
also v2g, if used effectively, can help with load leveling especially during peak demand. it would actually be more beneficial for the grid to get a localized, distributed power network than the centralized large-scale generation system we have now (grid stability is enhanced. also, this would serve to minimize the effect of disruption when a large centralized source goes offline).
where i do think government spending and subsidies would really help is with thin-film solar research for the ultimate bev or self-powering generator! if you want to avoid the classic big-government overreach, let the projects be funneled through DOD. nobody needs power more desperately than FOB's and our troops in combat zones. roof-mounted thin-film systems powering motorized humvees or solar-powered generators would be a huge help, and would absorb some of the "early-adopter premiums" found with new technologies.
this is esepcially relevant since currently, our military does not have the option of "changing driver behavior" or "buying more fuel-efficient vehicles" as this survey gets at.

I try to keep my CO2 footprint as small as a mayfly on the smooth waters of a clear mountain lake. It’s not that I can’t afford it; it’s just the right thing to do.

I have taken up hypermileing. My 78, 16oo cc, manual transmission, no frills Honda accord gets 83 mpg. To save weight, I pulled out all but the driver’s seat, the floor rugs, the head liner, the spare tire; tools, upholstery, and anything that is not absolutely require to make the car run. I keep my bike in the car in case of a problem so I can ride home in an emergency. My model and idol is Wayne Gerdes . He regularly gets over 100 mpg. I am not as good as he is but I am making progress. Hypermileing requires practice, hard work, concentration and is dangerous. It’s not that I can’t afford the gas; it’s just the right thing to do.

I have been using fire wood for a long time. I go into the bush and cut it myself. There always are cuts and burses, aches and pains. I carry the wood out of the bush a little at a time on my back to save gas. It’s not that I can’t afford the heating oil; it’s just that I want to save it for those old people on fixed incomes because it the right thing to do.

I ride a bike everywhere I can no matter the weather; 100 degree heat, rain, sub frigid cold with gale force winds. Even when Mister Johnson freezes, I stop to defrost, and in a few minutes I bike on. Sometimes I fall; I’m bruised from eyebrow to little toe. I recover in a few days and bike on.

I guess I’m like you fellows on GCC, but a bit more ardent. I figure if you’re going to do something you should pull out all the stops. Get as green as you can be.

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Wayne Gerdes

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Wayne Gerdes

If they were to have surveyed me, I bet it would not ask if I already drove as efficiently as possible yet I would answer "I have not changed and will not ever change my driving habits."

I guess I'm just weird in that I have always bragged about my mpg as much as other "gearheads" brag about their 1/4 mile times (even when gasoline was less than $1.50 per gallon).

Axil, I think you still don't get it. It's not about "class hatred". It's about the unfairness of asking responsible people to pay for the selfish choices of irresponsible people. If you want to define "the selfish irresponsible people" as a "class", well, then, ok. I don't like 'em much.

Folks? I think that Axil was joking about the "effete green reactionism." Read the last sentence of his first article:

"Have some compassion. At least donate some can food at the food bank."

Am I the only one who hears Eric Idle saying, "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" when reading this?

LiveFreeorDie,

Arabs in invest in thin-film PV production:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-9954708-54.html

Marc,

Thin-film is basically developed (of course efficiency can still be improved, but its high enoug to power an electric car with the roof area available on ones home). But what's currently missing is the thin-film production capacity. But this will change:
http://www.oerlikon.com/ecomaXL/index.php?site=OERLIKON_EN_overview_solar

Electricity consumption during daytime is 3 times higher than at night. PV reduces the load on the grid.

If I wanted to live free, I would produce my heat and electricity needs on my roof.

John L

John, you are a very perceptive guy. Any author likes to have his words analyzed. I feel the way James Joyce would have felt when his works are analyzed in English lit 101. You get an A. It’s been a hoot. Thanks GCC contributors for a good laugh. Please forgive me, but I couldn’t resist.

We need more class warfare. Is that what we're saying here?
People who judge others based on where they live and what they drive is a very, very shallow person. Until you know the individual circumstances, how can you be the judge? Furthermore, I refuse to use the label "environmental wacko" to piegon hole people," but going over the top to shame others to a certain way of thinking only creates resentment. Lead by example and education-not sarcism.
I've cut my transportation fuel consumption by 40%, using the same vehicles. I have lowered my thermostat in winter to 65 degrees and upped my air conditioning to 78 deegrees, long before the current energy crisis. But I refuse to judge others for doing differently. I just simply tell them how much money I've saved. Works every time, and many have used my example to cut their energy bills.
I'm 72 years old and don't intend riding a bycycle in the dead of winter, in rain storms, or when it's 90 in the shade. So please don't judge me if I happen to pass you and your bycicle on the highway in my 1993 Ford Ranger.
Hypermileing to the extreme is not only dangerous to the driver (and occupants) but also to others on the road. Read up on it and educate yourself.
And finally, we are at least four decades away from freeing ourselves of fossil fuels, if ever. It's the way of the world so get use to it.

I don’t know who deservers the title "St.Mother Terisa of the Gaian nouveaux religion" (Attribution: Stan Peterson) more; shigley or Head Case. I think it’s got to be Head Case. The pain, suffering, and danger that Head Case endures deserves the Medal of Honor of environmentalism. Did you get the significance of a “frozen Mr. Johnson”? And those whole body bruises, Wow! That’s way beyond the call. And he does it “because it’s right.”

Here again, I can’t resist. (-:

I am ready to receive my penance. If you fell you must, then weigh in!

Electrical energy cost and peak loads can be greatly reduced very cheaply with the use of very low cost ($39 ea.), high reliability, programmable, 4KW, 220 VAC e-thermostats to:

1) turn OFF your hot water heater during peak load hours and turn it back ON during off-peak hours.

2) turn ON your PHEVs and BEVs chargers during off-peak hours only.

3) to recharge heat energy storage heaters during off-peaks hours only. Use the accumulated/stored heat the house the rest of the day or as required. Use as many of those heat storage heaters + programmable e-thermostats as required. They can easily replace existing standard baseboard heaters.

HarveyD:

Smart metering already exists, but it is currently undergoing a rapid evolution.

See an example as follows:

http://www.energetics.com/MADRI/toolbox/pdfs/background/primer.pdf

I would like to see a standard world wide hack proof smart meter communication protocol defined that controls non critical equipment and appliances down the power lines. Some of those appliances you have listed in your post. For example, once your micro processor controlled hot water heater is programmed (A standard default i_d_i_o_t proof program could be initially loaded from the factory), it can follow a low cost energy consumption program(an upgrade to energy star). The same is true for your plug in vehicle. A button could turn the program off/on at the option of the user. I think this could be a valuable feature of “the smart grid” to load balance distributed alternative electric production. This is another thing we can put into our dream bag.

austin energy has a thermostat that they incorporate into many apts, etc. that will cycle AC loads during peak demand. they claim it's seamless, but when it's 100 degrees in the middle of the summer, you turn on your ac and it doesn't go on, you know something is wrong.
people will go out of their ways to disable or remove these thermostats. and i can't say i blame them.
when it's 100 degrees i could care less about excessive energy consumption. i want some coolness.
oh and head case, stop being an ass. people are just trying to show that they minimize their impact, to contrast with those out there who live to the new american motto bigger is better.

We have a rare consensus.

Headcase - your name is very appropriate ; )

Good for you that you have a personal situation that allows you to make the choices you do - however, relying on a few motivated "extremists" (I do not mean this in a derogatory sense) will not solve the problem. I have a newborn child and there's no way I can ride a bike with him everywhere or go scouring woods (2+ miles from my house) for fuel. I'm sure many other posters feel the same.

It's sad that the political system over here is such that there is no incentive for progressive policies like an escalating fuel tax that, if implemented and the funds directed to sponsoring private innovation, could have given the US a far smoother ride in the years ahead as well as a strong competitive position vs China, etc

Despite the denials from the petro-profiteers rapidly turning us into debt slaves, it's clear most of the world will need to live with less diesel and gasoline.

Maybe automakers should be "persuaded" to make gasoline/methanol/ethanol flex-fuel systems - or at least produce fuel system designs that could be easily retrofitted into flex-fuel.

Methanol (from natural gas, coal or biomass) can be produced much more cheaply than gasoline today (and I mean methanol's lower cost per unit of heat energy compared to gasoline - I know methanol's low energy density is somewhat inconvenient). Unfortunately, methanol may be too toxic (whether ingested, breathed, or absorbed through the skin), especially during this age of terrorism. We need a serious evaluation of likely environmental methanol toxicity before adopting methanol as a competitor to gasoline. Maybe methanol would cause no more injury to our population than gasoline contamination does today - but anything new today is subject to crippling lawsuits. Frankly, it baffles me why big oil importers like the US - and especially developing China - have not formed conclusions about methanol as an alternative to gasoline.

Methanol's bulk production methods use syngas (CO and hydrogen), catalysts, moderate pressures (10-20 atm), and high temperatures (e.g., 850C). Ethanol is far less toxic than methanol, but ethanol is more difficult to make. In particular, the C-C bond of ethanol is hard to make using syngas (CO and hydrogen), but it can be done using much higher pressures and appropriate catalysts. However, such thermochemical processes for ethanol aren't very selective, meaning thermochemical ethanol synthesis also produces a spectrum of alcohols (such as methanol and butanol) and other hydrocarbons. And although ethanol is an intermediate compound for Fischer-Tropsch processes to make synthetic oil (used by WW2 Germany and South Africa), such synthetic oil (though arguably a better fuel stock than ethanol) is still very expensive to produce.

But almost all ethanol is produced biologically today (by fermentation), and quite selectively too. Corn ethanol has a poor return on energy invested, while sugarcane ethanol is much better, and so-called cellulosic ethanol (from switchgrass or algae for examples) is unproven after decades of development. But BRI and Coskata are start-ups developing novel bacteria that can convert syngas into ethanol. Again it baffles me why governments around the world aren't massively investigating the feasibility of such bacterial synthesis of ethanol from syngas.

I think it's time for the public to start demanding real answers (instead of the current petro-propaganda) about how we're going to get adequate future fuel supplies. In particular, we should demand ASAP hard, open facts about how to synthesize increasing amounts of fuel instead of accepting boundless BS from self-interested promoters about all the mythical oil we'll somehow find somewhere "out there" if only we drill enough, build enough refineries, and occupy enough countries. For Chrissake, the peak year of world-wide oil discovery was way back in 1964, and world-wide discovery has been essentially downhill since. Transportation is too important to allow it to be controlled by all our profiteering petro-liars. It's time the public is allowed to know about all the feasible options for fuel synthesis.

Quoth marc:

ask any EE who specializes in T&D and they will tell you what a dire state the electricity grid is in WRT future growth notwithstanding a huge load from EV's.

we are going to need multi-trillion dollar upgrades in T&D infrastructure in our lifetimes to handle these upgrades

I can see the US needing as much new HVDC mileage as the Interstate system, perhaps 50,000 miles @ $600k/mile totalling $30 billion.  I can see lots of service work on existing lines:  replacing transformers and towers at end of life, upgrading conductors and SCADA systems, going to networked meters with DSM capabilities everywhere.  Is there even $1 trillion in those parts?  The really expensive stuff seems to be real estate, and rights of way don't get old and fail.

I know my posts about fuel synthesis have been long-winded, so congratulations on anybody who read them.

However, the upcoming elections are a critical turning point (just like the 2000 elections turned out to be).

The issues concerning fuel synthesis I raised above are complex for the average voter.

But we’re better off if voters and especially policymakers are well-informed that fuel synthesis is an option with many advantages (but possible hazards too).

After the elections, fuel synthesis may not be an option. Fuel synthesis may become a necessity, and we’ll need to do it right.

"quoth" engineer-poet (who is neither)

"It's my understanding that most of these EV's are going to be charging in the off-peak hours and not contributing to growth of peak demand."

a ridiculous proposition. do people fill up their gas tanks at night?

from the other guy

"we are going to need multi-trillion dollar upgrades in T&D infrastructure in our lifetimes to handle these upgrades"

where's the proof??

Jay: elections have no effect on the big players behind politicians. Any PM or President or Head of State is soon schooled in the things they can and cannot do (just ask Jimmy Carter.) Forget the election - it is a cheap entertainment product for foreign consumption. As to the subject of this article:

"The number of Americans traveling 50 or more miles from home this holiday weekend will decrease by 0.9% to 37.87 million." CNN

What's the big whoop here? And "bigger is better" is not new. It's been a part of American life since the annexation of Texas in 1845.

Hmm, Head Case burning wood. Is that, like...creating CO2? Sorry, Head Case, but I couldn't resist. And I do apologize for my semi-rant but I hate being preached to. My wife has done enough of that to last a lifetime... such as it is.
Axil, I didn't mean to sound like I was falling on my sword, but I'm a simple man and tend to logically do what I can to cut my expenses. If that helps make my carbon footprint a little smaller, then so be it. And, hell, I don't have any place to go anyway.

Bleakhouse sayeth:

> Jay: elections have no effect on the big players behind politicians. Any PM or President or Head of State is soon schooled in the things they can and cannot do (just ask Jimmy Carter.) Forget the election - it is a cheap entertainment product for foreign consumption.

And so sayeth the dinosaurs when they whistled past their boneyards…

Even Exxon’s executives are under massive attacks by their stockholders to diversify to alternatives or else get sacked…

That’s because even Exxon’s reserves are rapidly depleting…which will bankrupt Exxon within 2 decades.

Jimmy Carter is ancient history who was planning too far ahead.

Naturally, dinosaurs would bring up ancient Jimmy Carter, and dinosaurs somehow think they can re-burn easy oil that’s long been used up - i.e., somehow return to the past as if entropy doesn’t increase or something. So good luck with your theories. They’re a lot like senile Reagan’s when he inherited all that new Alaskan oil supply (and an oil glut from the North Sea AND dumping on oil markets to pay for the Iran-Iraq war, etc., etc.)…and cars that had doubled in fuel economy between the early 1970’s and early 1980’s.

No glut is on the horizon now – just increasingly constricted world-wide petroleum supplies that will cripple the world economy.

Elections from now on could be very important – especially at the US federal level. And at shareholders meetings. What’s your alternative ?? More handholding of the Saudi King by another groveling US President ??