Audi delivers more than 50,000 cars in China in one month for the first time; 3x US sales
Researchers demonstrate use of 3D printing to produce and operate light-weight, low-cost electrolyzers

DOE seeking input on commercialization of fuel cells as range extenders for battery-electric vehicles

The US Department of Energy (DOE) has issued a Request for Information (RFI) (DE-FOA-0001145) to solicit feedback from industry, academia, research laboratories, government agencies, and other stakeholders on issues related to the technical and economic feasibility of commercializing fuel cell range extenders for available battery-electric vehicles (BEVs) in the US market.

DOE’s office of Energy Efficiency & Renewable Energy (EERE) is specifically interested in information on BEV makes and models where an after-market modification to extend the vehicle range using a Polymer Electrolyte Membrane (PEM) fuel cell system would be most feasible.

The RFI is seeking input on a number of questions, including:

  • The business case (including capital/operating cost reductions) for using prime battery propulsion with fuel cell range extenders for light-duty vans or delivery vehicles used to deliver parcels, to dispatch service technicians, or to shuttle individuals or small groups of people within service territories.

  • Potential vehicle technical performance improvements for an on-board PEM fuel cell range extender supporting prime battery propulsion, e.g., battery durability, productivity improvements (e.g. low downtime for refueling), or vehicle torque.

  • The potential increase in fleet customers, given an increase in electric range.

  • Potential for reductions in manufacturing cost, weight, and volume of the electric drivetrain by reducing the size of the battery and offsetting with the PEM fuel cell and energy storage.

  • The potential air emissions advantages of fuel cell range extenders as compared to other technologies shown in this table:

      BEV, US grid FCEV, SMR H2 BEV w/FC, SMR H2 Gasoline PHEV40 Gasoline HEV Gasoline ICEV Diesel ICEV
    Elec. drive Wh/mi 300 300 278
    mpgge 61 43 41 32 38
    Max. range, miles 80 (24 kWh pack) 300 40 (12 kWh batt.) + 180 (3 kg H2) 500 500 400 450
    Grams GHG/mi 210 250 240 220 270 340 300

  • Regulatory considerations in terms of a value proposition such as compliance with noise and anti-idling laws.

  • The role of government support in accelerating deployment.

  • The minimum number of vehicles (deployed with government support) needed to: (1) provide enough data and analysis for industry acceptance and (2) enable further deployments without government assistance.

  • present economic and non-technical barriers to commercializing the technology application.

  • Regulation or permitting issues in locating a suitably sized technology deployment project.

  • Challenges in providing refueling infrastructure.

  • Technical advantages that would make fuel cell range extenders more viable than BEVs or Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs).

  • Technology advances for PEM fuel cell range extenders that would make them more commercially viable.

  • The potential for adding a fuel cell range extender to a commercial BEV to make that vehicle platform more viable.

In addition to responses on the specific issues raised, DOE is also looking for comment on five key general issues for the category: potential impact; additionality (e.g., expanding the number of participants); openness; the proper role of government; and the enduring economic benefit.

Resources

Comments

Davemart

I can't see anything odd in Government, and its grants, being focussed on the short term more than the long.

However in the case of fuel cells this is not unreasonable, as it is obvious that the challenges particularly in a car are more severe to build a high temperature FC and reformer than a lower temperature PEM without on board reformation.

SJC

This is just a request for information, which is my point, it goes no where. Autothermal reformers have been around for decades. PEMs have been around for decades. In 1999 Daimler had NECAR which reformed methanol to provide H2 for a PEM, the car drove across the U.S.

Exxon spent millions of dollars on an ad campaign to discredit global warming. The Koch brothers spend millions of dollars to discredit climate change. Every oil, gas and coal company collectively spends billions of dollars each year to protect their profits.

The price of oil quintupled from 2000 to 2008, it went from $20 per barrel to $100 per barrel. Exxon made $40 billion in profits year after year, it was the world's MOST profitable company of ALL times. You protect those profits, that is my point.

They protect those profit through HUGE lobby efforts in Washington D.C. a part of those effects is making sure wind and solar don't get tax breaks. A part of that effort is to make sure synthetic fuels don't get made. A part of that effort is to make sure cellulose ethanol does not happen then repeal the RFS.

Cellulose ethanol is not made in large quantities not because that is not technically possible, it IS possible, the POET corporation has shown that, IOGEN has shown this for a decade. The oil companies only have to call investment bankers for money to dry up, it is that simple. Then they get on the phone to their lobbyists who button hole Congress to do what they want through campaign contributions.

I am not telling you all anything you don't already know, but sometimes people refuse to add two and two to see what is going on.

Davemart

The assumption that you are the guy 'in the know' and everyone else is deluded and hoodwinked is not a proposition conducive to constructive discussion.

Clearly everyone and their car tries to buy and influence public opinion.
What is less clear is the degree to which this is either coordinated, or countered by other forces, or successful.

In the present subject under discussion the fairly monumental difficulty of building a lightweight fuel cell and reformer combination capable of dealing with any and all fuels at high temperature seems to me to make conspiracy theories redundant, as it is pretty pointless to conspire against something we are nowhere near being able to do.

A conspiracy against battery cars, or fuel cell cars using hydrogen, would seem to offer the proposed conspirators more bang for their buck in the next ten years.

SJC

No, that is your conclusion.
You are not getting my point, it is not a conspiracy to stop batteries nor fuel cells, the oil companies want to stop ANYTHING that threatens their profits.

Roger Pham

IMHO, it is natural for any one to try to protect their business and profit stream. However, that can only go so far. More creative people will look for new opportunities at profits instead of just protecting old business., for example, keep on building horse-drawn carriage instead of autos.

In the case of RE, H2 can be made using RE for about $2, yet can be sold at $5-7 and is still competitive with gasoline...potential for huge profit margin...No need for refining nor transporting of the crude material nor of refined product...No environmental risk to deal w/, unlike oil spill disasters costing billions or tens of billions...New opportunity for the energy business!

Davemart

@Sjc:
I comprehend your point perfectly well.
I simply disagree that that is the reason that fuel cells with on board reformers are not taking the world by storm, for the technical reasons I have already specified.

Lad

Each time energy is changed from one form to another, energy is lost and most often costs of the energy increases. The simplest practical form of creating stored electricity for EVs is by charging batteries directly from solar cells. Using reformed oil/gas or electrolysis to create hydrogen and then burning it in the atmosphere to create electricity is wasteful and costly, as is the idea of using gasoline for that purpose. God help us for even considering the idea.

Cleaning up the Earth and air requires not mining or using hydrocarbons and developing renewables. The various methodologies,i.e., PEM to continue on with hydrocarbons are not solving problems, only delaying them; and, it is to the hydrocarbon producers best money interest to delay the advancement of renewables. I believe that is exactly what they are doing; mostly through the Republican Party and their associated lobbying firms.

The key to clean air, water and soil is a more efficient battery; we should vote out of office the politicians who speak for the continued use of hydrocarbons and against progress on this most critical component.

Davemart

@Lad:
The sun does not shine at night, or so much in the winter outside of the tropics, as in your more perceptive moments you may have realised! ;-)

So it is not a simple as the round trip efficiency to a battery.

Even if you had a storage battery at home, charging your car from that would lead to overall efficiencies of around the same as the present efficiency of electrolysis, even assuming that the process heat for hydrogen production is not captured, as it is for instance by Audi in their wind to grid set up.

Of course, further efficiency losses are incurred in getting electricity back out of the hydrogen etc, but the point remains, everything is lossy, the question is how much.

Once one considers annual variation, the reason that hydrogen storage is favoured by every major country and organisation wanting a high proportion of renewables is obvious.

Even at the latitude of Phoenix, there is only around a third as much sunshine in the depths of winter as in the height of summer.

So you either very wastefully overbuild, or stop running a car.

It would be great is only there were some way of storing the sun from the summer to use as fuel in the winter.
Fortunately there is.
It is called hydrogen, about the only way of storing such massive quantities of energy to cover seasonal variation, especially considering the seasonal swings are much worse in most places than in Arizona.

So there are compelling reasons why people don't 'just use solar and batteries' which you are not looking at.
They are not complete morons as you seem to assume.

Of course, for me, it doesn't matter, as I would be perfectly happy with a massive build out of nuclear, which work just fine with battery cars year round, but if you are an advocate of a lot of renewables there are sound reasons why hydrogen is essential to make it work.

HarveyD

Solar and wind will require access to large storage facilities such as H2, large elevated water reservoirs, large EV fleet and-or future TBD storage facilities but it is not an impossible task.

The worse enemies are going to be fossil fuel producers and politicians who need their money to get elected.

Let's not forget that today's politicians need many $$BBB to buy their election or re-election. Oil and Coal people have known that for a long time. RE people will have to play the same game and even harder to win. Where will RE supporters get the $$ BBB required to buy enough politicians from both parties?

The solution is more and more $$$$. Who will manage to get their hands or the biggest lot.

Roger Pham

Don't worry, Harvey. The energy companies will be able to make a lot of profits from RE H2 and this will grow gradually to displa e fossil fuel. Investment s in oil and gas will stop to make ways for investments in RE and H2. This will be the way of a clean and sustainable future.

ai_vin

"A BEV does not have such a role in the promotion of RE because a BEV is charged from the grid, for which RE is more expensive."

The average BEV, like any other car, spends +90% of the time PARKED somewhere. 22 hours is much longer than you need for a recharge so if you keep it plugged in it can be preprogrammed to charge for any portion of time during that time, like when an excess of solar and/or wind energy is available. An internet connection to your BEV can easily tell it when such periods of time are likely.

Roger Pham

Good point, ai vin. Furthermore, if charged at the work place, the power can come directly from solar panels in the vicinity via dedicated DC lines to reduce cost and increase efficiency. In the winter when sunlight is a lot less, the BEV can be charged from FC for CHP at work and at home when the waste heat can be used for space heating.

Lad

@Davemart:
It is the mining of fossil fuels and using fossil fuels that are the damaging forces; I don't care how you propose to store energy as long as you don't use carbon to create it. Hydrogen storage, pumping water uphill, flywheels, Lithium batteries, etc. I see many ways to create and store potential energy, other than burning fossil fuels. I think we are underway with solar and wind generated electricity stored in grid edge batteries and we need to build on that start. Perhaps geothermal, wind towers and wave generation are next. Nuclear could be if we weren't so careless and complacent about managing the important safety issues and GE could produce the fuel at a reasonable cost. These methods are expensive to develop? yes; but, give me anything but crapped up air, water, and land caused by fossil fuels.

I agree with the others and I'll go further: The enemy of the people is the fossil fuels industry and their bribed politicians, mostly Republicans. The only power we have is to vote in people who have a clean energy agenda and vote out those who support fossil fuels.

SJC

Lad,

Thanks for the core focus. All too often we get wrapped up in the Request for Information, DOE Grants and Loan Guarantee announcements but forget that this has been going on for 40 years with very little to show for it.

If I am a large corporation, I will spend a lot of money on lobbyists to make sure I get my way. It does not matter if my way is bad for the U.S. and the people, it must be good for my corporation. All too often people think that the good of the people will come from the aggregation of corporate interests. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Herman

Darn those oil companies and their political contributions.

Here, from Open Secrets.org, which is run by the distinctly leftward Center for Responsive Politics, are the Top Contributors in the 2012 cycle. Note that the numbers combine all PAC, soft money, and large ($201+) individual contributions made by the organization, its employees, officers and their immediate families that Open Secrets can find. Subsidiaries and affiliates are also included in the totals:
1 Las Vegas Sands $52.7M
2 Adelson Drug Clinic $42.1M
3 Contran Corp $31.4M
4 Perry Homes $23.7M
5 National Education Assn $14.8M
6 City of New York, NY $14.3M
7 Newsweb Corp $14.2M
8 United Auto Workers $13.3M
9 Hugo Enterprises $12.9M
10 American Fedn of St/Cnty/Munic Employee

Holy cow… no Big Oil in the top 10. But let’s keep looking. Well, at
21: TRT Holdings $6.4M Except for the core Tana Exploration company, it’s virtually all hotels, resorts and health clubs. But there is some evilnastywicked oil.

30 Oxbow Corp $4.9M AHA! Owned by Satan’s spawn, the Koch family, Oxbow, a transporter of refinery products and other services. These contributions, about 1/3rd of NYC’s total and about 2% of that contributed by the top 10, must be the thing that is holding back "renewables".

But let’s go on past more unions, social interest groups, banks, etc. until we get to the real culprits behind America’s corruption: Chevron at #50, and Exxon at #77 (behind Dreamworks SKG --- damned cartoons!!! --- the Postal Workers Union, and the Beer Wholesalers).

How dare they.

Now, wait, you say: this doesn’t look at heavy hitters from the past quarter century; it’s only the ’12 cycle.

OK, I could drag you through something similar for ’89-14 in which you’ll find the Kochs at #60, Chevron at #75, and Exxon at #78.

I hope this helps, but somehow I doubt actual traceable amounts will matter to those whose Reynolds Wrap protective gear is thickest.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)