2017 BMW 740e xDrive iPerformance PHEV going on sale in US starting at $89,100
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Hyundai delivers first fuel cell vehicle in Québec

Hyundai Auto Canada Corp. has delivered a 2016 Tucson Fuel Cell vehicle to the Centre de Gestion de l’Equipment Roulant (CGER)—its first customer in Québec, the third province where the vehicle can now be found.

The CGER manages vehicle fleets for Québec provincial ministries and the lease is in partnership with the Hydrogen Research Institute of Trois-Rivieres at Université du Québec à Trois-Rivières. The vehicle will be refueled at the Institute.

In November, 2014, Hyundai Auto Canada announced it would become the first Canadian automotive company to offer its fuel cell technology to real-world customers. Since the first vehicle delivery took place in February, 2015, six Tucson FCEVs have been delivering thousands of zero-emissions kilometers on the roads of British Columbia. In the spring of 2016, the first customer in Ontario received a vehicle.

Comments

HarveyD

This is good news for us living in cold areas. I will seriously consider buying and FCEV (from Toyota, Hyundai or Honda) as soon as H2 is available within 7 Km of our place at an equivalent price to gasoline (up to $1.50/L)

Hope that many more H2 stations will be installed in our province (and in adjacent States/Provinces) in the next 12 to 24 months.

Davemart

Harvey:

You are going to get around twice the mpge from an FCEV compared to an ICE.

Do your figures take that into account?

HarveyD

We're using 3 recent Toyota HEVs averaging about 45 mpg.

FCEVs would have to do about 90 mpg equivalent to justify H2 at twice the price i.e. up to $3.00/L to break even on fuel cost. That may be possible by 2020 or so.

electric-car-insider.com

HD> I will seriously consider buying an FCEV ... as soon as H2 is available within 7 Km of our place at an equivalent price to gasoline (up to $1.50/L)

Ahhh, there's the tell. Just up the ante enough so that you're never in any danger of actually having to personally act on your vocal support of Hydrogen.

That requirement puts you at a safe distance Harvey. You'll be pushing up daisies before any of us see H2 compete with petrol on price.

Thanks for laying that card face up.

HarveyD

e-c-i.c:

Since FCEVs are almost three times as efficient as ICEVs and twice as efficient as HEVs; H2 at $3.00/Kg to $4.50/Kg would be competitive and acceptable.

Low cost H2 could be done with very low cost excess Hydro-Wind electricity, specially outside peak load hours and on windy days.

electric-car-insider.com

Sure, Harvey. It could be done. If the energy generation was cheap, H2 would be cheap. Except for the expense of the infrastructure and a few other reality issues.

Which is why H2 costs $14.50- $16.50/kg in California, the undisputed leader in North America for H2 infrastructure.

But keep holding out hope. Another few decades, we could be there. If we all just click our heels and wish hard enough...

HarveyD

If California can produce clean H2 @ $13/Kg with very expensive clean electricity, we should be able to do much better with our huge Hydro-Wind 24/7 energy surpluses.

Aluminum foundries already get clean electric at CAN $0.028 /kWh = about USD $0.021 /kW. Outside peak periods (about 19/hour/day) on week days and 24/7 on
week ends and holidays, clean electricity (surpluses) can be negotiated as low as 1 cent/kWh.

Too bad our Provincial government (the sole owner of Quebec-Hydro) does re-invest some of the $2.4 B/year it gets in dividend, in new clean H2 stations and very quick charge e-stations. Our politicians need to be further stimulated.

electric-car-insider.com

H2 from methane is being retailed in California for $14.50-$16.50 / kg.

The expense of H2 is not just production, but equipment amortization and finance expenses, distribution, storage, compression, dispensing and retail markup. Even if the electricity was free you probably won't see hydrogen from electrolysis below $12/kg for a decade or more.

Dispensed at retail within ~ 4 mi of your house? Well, California is up to 20 stations within a four hundred mile stretch of land, and adding a few more every year.

Account Deleted

Harvey you should listen to ECI because he is right. Even if the cost of electricity for electrolysis of renewable hydrogen was an imaginative 0 USD per kwh hydrogen would still cost about 7-10 USD per kg at the hydrogen filling station because of the extreme cost of equipment and maintenance that is needed to make and store hydrogen at such a station. It will never be able to compete with gasoline or electricity for BEVs.

Davemart would argue that this can’t be true because most of the old auto-makers are investing in hydrogen and they can’t be wrong about the long term cost potential about hydrogen. Problem is that they are wrong and that we live in a world were stupidity rules in even the most improbable places like the management of our largest corporations. However, in the long term it does not matter much. Market competition (read natural selection of the fittest) will bankrupt those firms that stick with uneconomical technology. You will see for yourself in a few years. The auto companies that copies Tesla’s business plan will prosper and the rest will perish.

Mannstein

@ electric-car-insider

You obviously don't live in Quebec where electric rates are so low most homes are heated in the winter with electric power. The entire province uses Hydro electricity and there are plenty of more sites that are waiting to be developed.

Having moved from Montreal to Boston I almost choked when I received my first electric bill.

Mannstein

@ electric-car-insider

The undisputed leader in North America for H2 infrastructure may be California but it is not the cheapest generator of green electric power. That happens to be Quebec. One reason why it sells clean power credits to the Golden State.

Mannstein

@ Henrik

"Problem is that they are wrong" based on what facts? Or maybe just your say so.

electric-car-insider.com

You're absolutely right about low rates in QC, similar story in the Pacific Northwest in hydro utilty regions.

But I have been following the price of electrolysers and retail H2 installations (dispensing) and it is not a pretty picture.

What do you imagine it costs to install and permit an H2 station these days?

How many kg do they dispense per day?

Use a reasonable price and margin for H2 at retail. Calculate what kind of capital outlay that would justify.

It simply doesn't work without a massive public subsidy.

Why would anyone do that in an era of 50-80 mile PHEVs which run 90% on electricity (and are affordable).

HarveyD

Yes,a neater 'COLD WEATHER' solution for users in low cost 'clean electricity' area may be a (50-80 miles) 80 to 130 KM PHEV with a small on board 15 KW FC to extend the range to 600+ KM. A French manufacturer is producing this combo.

Users with home e-charging facilities could run on low cost electricity most of the time.

Users without home e-charging facilities could use public quick charge stations + the occasional H2 refill as required ONLY.

HarveyD

The Quebec politicians are currently planning to come with a new program (by end of 2016 or March 2017) to further promote the use of clean REs for future ground transportation needs, instead of fossil fuels.

The program will include the installation of many more public quick charging facilities, H2 stations and new subsidies for the purchase of EVs and FCEVs, as already done in Norway.

An affordable FC/PHEV with a 15 KW to 20 KW FC range extender would be an interesting solution for our cold area.

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