Where did you get 170 watt hours?

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I was thinking of doing an EV conversion with regular lead-acid for cheapness, but if these aren't so much more expensive it would definitely be worth waiting for them.

I don't think you should wait for these, Schwa.
Everything I saw on their website says the gains are still theoretical and the technology to build them in quantity is still a dream. I'd guess they're at least several (4+ ?) years from production. High-power lithium-ion is much farther along the development cycle but is still at least a year or two away.

If mass produced, this improved lead battery may become an economical alternative to MiMH and Litithim Ion batteries to lower the cost of Hybrids, PHEVs and EVs. Nothing wrong with competition, specially when Toyota has to curtail Prius production due to battery shortages. Could commercial production be accellerated?

Dude, the hyperlink in the lead in for Firefly Energy is busted.

I have a EV converted petrol car and I have just followed links here frmo evconvert.com. Mine runs on 16 golf cart lead acid batteries and they are definitely the limiting factor when it comes to range. My batteries weigh 414 Kgs and I can't wait for these carbon-lead batteries to come out. Hope they come out in golf-cart format. What a difference it will make! James - Coventry UK

EFFPOWER of sweden has high power lead acid bipolar battery in prototype production. They use ceramic cell separators instead of carbon.

THERE is also a company in england that sells a conductive material called ebonex that they use in prototype bipolar batteries and other electrolysis cells. They seem to reject carbon as too suseptible to oxidation. They even consider plating their ceramic with gold or platinum. Actually gold and platinum plated thin pure lead might be the best cost wise. One could even hide a copper screen totally by the lead.

There is a consortium of companies in europe that is making an expensive effort to develop plastic bipolar lead acid batteries. They intend to use conductive polymers to separate the cells.

It must be remembered that the electrical conduction through the acid is in most cases the limiting factor in the conduction of the batteries. That is why most lead acid batteries have many plates in parallel for each cell. Lead is however a very bad conductor compared to copper. Some batteries had copper hidden in the negative lead plate. Destruction of the lead positive grid was always too rapid to hide copper in it.

In bipolar lead acid batteries the cell separator must be conductive, highly-corrosion-resistant, and liquid tight. The batteries must also have plate separators like ordinary lead acid batteries. Fine fiber glass is usually used, as in AGM, absorbed glass mat, batteries.

I built my first bipolar lead acic battery about 1966. Volta built the first bipolar battery before 1800. Polaroid put bipolar batteries in their instant film packs in the 1970's.

The fact that lead is poisonous should not prevent us from using it. Lead probably has more press agents as a poison because it has been known since before the bible was written and perhaps before anything at all was written.

Every metal in common use and most other substances are poisonous in one form or another. Iron, copper, nickel and phosphorous are needed for every second of human life, but not very large amounts of any of them will kill you. The use of lead in sanitary systems and even in water supply systems before plastic became available probably saved ten-thousand times more man hours of human lives due to death than it ever cost.

Water supply systems with lead pipes in most parts of africa and many other parts of the world would still save ten-thousand times more man-life-hours than they would cost by poisoning. Fortunately plastic is cheaper now and safer?

People use nickel-metal-hydride batteries considering them safer than nickel-cadmium batteries but without knowing what metals are in the metal hydride. Since the metals are rarer than cadmium it is likely that our bodies are not used to small quatities of them. What are the poisonous properties of the metals used in your NiMH batteries.

Statistically the best way to prolong your life is to stay away from automobiles. They have enough Iron, Copper, Nickel and lead in them to kill dozens of people. In the United States more people have been killed in car accidents than in wars. Europe has more effective wars and less effective cars. Lead is statistically insignificant compared to tobacco, legal drugs, home accidents, fires etc as to the number of years cut off human lives even after we ignore automobiles.

Actually it is a lot easier to build bipolar nickel-iron (edison) batteries than lead ones, and they could have an energy density equivalent to the NiMH batteries. Their low voltage per cell is negated by the bipolar construction, and their horrible voltage curve can be corrected with small integrated electronics.

One of the most interesting metal hydrides is Ni5La. Five parts of nickel to one part of lanthanum. At about five atmosheres of pressure, a solid cube of this metal will absorb more gaseous hydrogen than the equivalent volume of liquid hydrogen and decay into dust. The hydrogen comes out again if the pressure is reduced enough. The dust can then absorb hydrogen again. Iron pipes also decompose under high pressures of hydrogen.

The best battery available now for automobiles is the ZEBRA battery. It is in actual current production. It was developed as an alternative to the sodium-sulphur battery by BETARD UK. and uses nickel chloride instead of sulphur. It could even, and does already to a small extent use iron chloride. It is used in hybrid busses and is used in marine applications by ROLLS-ROYCE, and will be used by them for a submarine rescue vehicle. It has a very long deep cycle life and no maintenance. It now has probably twice the energy density as any lead acid battery and could in large scale production cost less for lifetime use. It has a clear disadvantage of needing to be kept hot; if instantaneous use is required after a long pause in service. But in cold climates this could mean instant heat and defrosting for the price of keeping it plugged in. It operates so hot that neither cold nor hot climates have any effect on its operation; as it is sealed in a vacuum box. Its operating temperature is far less than that of your catalytic converter.

It uses a small fraction of the nickel required for the same capacity nickel metal hydride battery. The only materials needed in large portions for its construction are steel, nickel, aluminum and salt. A total iron version could be developed for lower voltage that needed no nickel.

The present type of construction required for this battery does not give it enough peak power in small units. But in units big enough to run a car for 100km they have plenty of power. Low tech flywheels in combination would give more than adequate stop go power for small nickel cloride units in present hybrid cars.

Low tech flywheels were used in several locomotives in England during the 1930's 40's and 50's to run freight trains electrically on tracks to the coast from london that had interrupted third rail electrification. Energy could even be stored in the flywheels by slowing the trains on hills and at stops. These locomotives have been replaced by electric locomotives with auxilliary diesel generators....

Dear sirs
what admirable work!
lead acid foam battery is very beautiful. I research about foam structures for battery and make carbon foam as current collector with lead coat . result were very delightful.
thank you.

andrew is obviously not current on battery technology; there are at least a dozen new variants that will move to replace lead acid in the coming decade.