It seems to me people do not trust the American car companies with a tricky new technology since Ford is not doing well with an SUV hybrid. Or it may be the Green buyers do not like the platform, an SUV. I would buy a normal Ford Focus Wagon PZEV, it gets basicly the same milage and the same interior volume and is much less. I would rather buy the Focus Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle...
I want to buy a RAV-4 SUV, the electric version they only sold a few hundred of and crushed the ones that were leased. They, unlike GM, allowed leases to be extended on the RAV-4 Electric and donated then for active use to parks etc.
It also seems like people do not like the Honda hybrid system that always uses the gas motor, unlike the Toyota drive. The Honda insight is a great car, poor hybrid drive, that needs to be a plug in serial hybrid right away!

Since Prius is selling all they can make, as fast as they can make them, there is little motivation for Toyota to spend much on innovation. None of the American companies seem to know how to innovate so here we sit in limbo with very little happening and no creative efforts being made.

By now we should have cars on the road with carbon fiber frames and diesel hybrid power systems getting over 100 mpg. They all should be as big as a medium size car and selling for less than 20K.

Think it couldn't be done? I could do it in a month if I had the resources of GM or Ford.

The only differance is I have imagination and creativity.

Good to see the hybrid concept is still winning more converts each and every month. While it may seem like an old hat to the avid readers of this web site, it's important to remember that the Prius has only been available in the US for three years so it's still early days.

As for Toyota, I am certain they are in fact investing heavily in hybrids because it is a fast-growing niche that they dominate. Apparently, they are beginning to turn a profit on hybrids and this will only improve as the up-front investments are amortized. In particular, I expect they are looking for cheaper battery technology.

GM and Ford are obviously not capable of delivering an attractive hybrid just yet, nor can any of the Europeans (though they virtually own the large diesel segment of their home markets). It takes millions of dollars and at least a couple of years to get a new model variant through R&D and certification, much more and longer for a completely new concept.

Honda's mild hybrid concept has less novelty appeal but is perfectly sensible in the long run. It was just a mistake to pair it with a 3L V6 in the Accord, even with the cylinder deactivation. A 1.5L I4 prime mover with VTG turbocharger and adaptive Atkinson detuning to limit engine-out temps would be more than sufficient. The electric motor can mask the turbo lag.

Also, emember that people don't just buy the powertrain, they buy the whole vehicle. I've read reviews of the Civic complaining about the dashboard and poor visibility from the driver's seat. The Escape apparently has some ergonomic downsides, too. Ergo, there will be hybrids that do not meet manufacturers' sales expectations, just as with conventional cars.

Rafael, remember, before the current Prius, there was the Prius Classic. The Classic was introduced in the US in August 2000, as model year 2001. 2002 and 2003 followed, and then came the 2004 HSD Prius.

Also, for me, I could never settle for a mild hybrid like the Civic, though, I’m glad they’re selling well. After 18 months with the Prius, I still thrill at driving moderately and seeing that readout show 75 mpg, which I can accomplish if noone is behind me, and it’s not too cold out (Chicago suburbs).

GM and Ford are obviously not capable of delivering an attractive hybrid just yet

All the more distressing since the US gov't went in with them to do exactly that starting in 1994. They had to be dragged largely against their will, while Toyota on hearing about it actually wanted to join. They were turned away, as the program (Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles) was in part about keeping the US industry competitive in the future, so they went and did it on their own. PNGV got axed in 2001 within the first 100 days of the current administration, and look where GM and Ford are now, and where Toyota is. Toyota set their bar significantly lower, at 55 mpg instead of PNGV's 80, which made it easier to get a saleable car out relatively quickly. But the Big 3 all had 70-80 mpg prototypes, just not enough vision and willpower to see it through. This was a failure in management on the part of the US automakers.

The problem is the American hybrids are just TOO BIG for the green consumer.

Ok, forgive me, but I only visit this site once a month or so, so here are some stacked up comments on some of the comments above:

(Forgive my terseness & brevity - i don't mean to be rude to anyone, it's just that I used to work for Ford in engine design, and have owned a Honda Insight since they first came out, so I know alot about these issues.)

* Eric, I disagree that high-powered hybrids are a misuse of the technology. The companies can use the technology for whatever they want. It's your choice to buy or not to buy.

* Good comments Joseph, except the last one - the Insight would be the worst possible choice for a plug-in hybrid because a large fraction of its efficiency comes from being the smallest hybrid, the lightest hybrid (it's probably the most aluminum-intensive vehicle on the planet), and the most aerodynamic. All those work against adding heavy lead-acid batteries that are planned to be used in plug-in hybrids. Also, since it's mild and doesn't run electric-only, it would also be a poor candidate for that reason.

* Lucas, I must say your comments are mostly why I'm posting my comments in the first place! While it might seem on the surface that Toyota has little motivation to continue innovating (I would agree there), it seems they are doing just the opposite. The design and sophistication in the upcoming Lexus models are really a quantuum leap beyond what's out there now... the 400h even has a dual-parallel planetary gear system, to optimize the ratio of the gearing _between_ the electric gas powerplants. And the CVT's in this (and the upcoming GS450h and LS600h will be the highest torque-handling CVT's ever. The complexity of these powertrain systems is simply beyond belief, and to be introducing so many so quickly doubles the accomplishment.

As for 100mpg carbon fiber cars for 20k, these are the rumors and I live to squash. I'm pretty creative and imaginative myself, and I worked there at Ford for 84 months, not the one month you'd need to accomplish all this. First off, Ford (and it's racing partners) make plenty of carbon fiber cars. They are all over F1 and Indy, and they are for sale if you want to buy one. $1,000,000 should cover it, and and you'll need another million each year if you'd like to put 5 or 10k hard-driving miles on the OD for upkeep. If you took out the 800hp engines and put in an Insight engine, they would happily get your 100mpg, and maybe save you $300,000 in engine costs. Now subsidise the other $680,000 out of your pocket, and you could sell this one-seater for $20,000!

I'm good friends with a resin specialist. He builds carbon fiber racing boats and so forth. He made vinylester vacuum-bagged architechtural pieces for his home he's renovating... it only took him 18 months to finish them... He has a room about 100' long where he bakes all his boat frames. Let's see, to make a mainstream car with this technology - say making 750,000 cars per year, in a single plant running 2-shifts a day, would give you a line-speed of about one car every 30 seconds. You'd need a plant about the size of the city of Boston to accomplish this, and your curing ovens would be about 1 square mile. I guess this body plant would cost around $10,000,000,000, give or take. These car bodies I'd say could be mass produced at perhaps a 90% savings over the racing bodies, maybe more... only around $60,000 cost... so your sticker price would be about $130,000 all told for the 100mpg prius sized vehicle. You'd sell a ton of those! People would line up to save the extra $600 a year in gas it'd save over the Prius, right?

I applaud your dreams, but the entire conspircy theory about the big three having cheap 100mpg cars in their back pockets for $20k is a myth that deserves to die.

* Rafael, I like your ideas a lot, except I'm wishy washy about the 3l V6 accord vs. your 1.5L idea. You're talking about 2 different vehicles, I think. The Accord Hybrid is a high performance $31-33k vehicle, and isn't selling well. An accord with your 1.5L engine is basically a roomy "prius classic", except much slower. The accord hybrid version weighs close to 700lbs more than the current prius, and the Atkinson cycle usually uses a supercharger, not a turbo, and doesn't generate much more hp than a none-forced-air engine of a similiar displacement... so you'd be right under 100 hps or so, plus the electric motors, would give you a 0-60 of somewhere around the prius classic's 12.5 seconds... You'd have more fun in an RV than that thing.

On the other hand, I've heard rumors that the camry hybrid will be more what you're talking about... instead of it being a "high-performance" version of the existing car, the car will have similiar performance and much better fuel economy. I think the problem with the Accord hybrid is that it's not expensive _enough_. They should have made it an Acura and let it compete with the GS450h coming out at the end of the year. The Accord name just doesn't work with $33k "luxury" hybrids. It's more a marketing failure than anything else. The problem probably arose because if they would have taken the Toyota/Camry plan and starting from the 4-cyclinder Accord version, the resulting car would have been too similiar in power/cost with the existing V6 gas Accord.

* "Feris Beuler", I'm not aware of any cold climate issues with diesel's requiring higher maintenance, but please share if you're aware of any. Diesel's are the powertrain-of-choice in extreme environments for exactly the opposite reason. Diesel's do last a lot longer than gas engines, but only because they are designed stronger to withstand the higher compression ratios that diesels require. If you overdesigned a gas engine to the same standards it'd last just as long as the equivalent diesel. The cost of the gas engine would also rise, just like the additional cost diesels currently incur (for equivalent power).

Your cold-climate issues do effect the hybrids though. NiMH chemistry is damaged when flowing even low currents at under 32°F, but all hybrids on the market protect the batteries during a warm-up cycle. Current is still flowing though, and I'd imagine those cold-weather hybrids will have battery lifetimes occassionally less than the life of the car, requiring replacement. Also, if you do a lot of short drives you'll have very little torque and performance from a hybrid in cold weather because the electric motor won't assist much until the batteries warm. I don't mind the warm-up period in my Insight, because I have a long commute and they warm up within a few miles. My batteries are still going strong after 5 years and 90,000 miles, and I won't need to replace them before the car is junked/recycled.

* George, averaging 75 mpg for short level low-speed driving is nice in the current Prius, but don't put down the mild hybrids (I hate that moniker!). My mild Insight averages a constant 125mpg for level constant-40 mph section, so there! Other factors like 0.25Cd's and 1875lb curb weights are great accomplishments also... calling it "mild" doesn't really give the overall package its due credit, IMHO.

* Paul, I was a researcher at Ford's "Sci-lab" in 99 when the hybrid from the PNGV program was completed. It did seat 4, but didn't achieve 70mpg. It also cost $1,000,000 (just the car) - not counting the $1,000,000,000 or so we spent on development (not including the money the Feds gave us... I'm talking about Ford's own money). It sat in the lobby for a while, and I remember walking by it, amazed at the technology, and wondering if I'd ever live to own such a vehicle. Little did I know in less then a year an Insight would be in my driveway!

Unfortunately the design of the vehicle was just too expensive to produce, and with the end of the PNGV program development Ford took a breather until the prius and Bill Ford jumped back in. Unfortunately the technology in the PNGV car was still so out of reach in production Ford ended up licensing some of the Escape powertrain designs from Toyota, as you may be aware.

* "D", Man, I swear to you, we didn't have 70-80 mpg prototypes, and it wasn't vision or willpower that was missing (believe me!). It was the strong belief that no one wanted our 62-64mpg Taurus-like hybrid that would have costed around $50,000+ with the design we had... but without all the "power and performance" the 1999 Taurus was known for. *wink* *wink*.

* Tripp - right on, dude! These battieries are freakin' amazing. Take your average NiMH that lasts 500-1000 full charges, and kick the chemistry up a notch, and add amazing computer controllers and power control units that monitor temperature, charge-level, current, and change-in-temperature, and you can stretch out the life of those things to multi-hundred-thousands of cycles. Truly amazing. The warrenties are long, and the batteries last longer.

People who are religious about Prius - are just being brain washed by Toyota's marketing. They follow Toyota's sermon by put down other competitors such as the Honda civc - as 'mild' hybrid. People now really believe that the Prius system is (ONLY) the best hybrid system in the world. But real life testing between Prius and Honda hybrid civc gives approximately the same of milage. So, stop talking as if the Prius is the new "religion" - the only game in town.