Bosch and Getrag to Work Together on Hybrid Systems
05 June 2006
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| A prototype Getrag parallel mild-hybrid transmission with one motor. |
Bosch and Getrag have agreed to work together on hybrid systems. The new partnership covers the development and marketing of parallel hybrid systems in conjunction with dual-clutch transmissions and electrical final-drive units. Getrag is a specialist in dual-clutch transmissions.
Key aspects of the collaboration include the integration of mechanical and electrical components and the development of appropriate software. The collaboration also involves the development of final-drive units with directly integrated electric motors.
In a parallel hybrid, the electric drive that provides drive assistance and regenerative braking is fitted directly into the power flow of the drivetrain. The dual-clutch transmission enables easy and energy-efficient automatic shifting.
Getrag offers a broad product portfolio covering the entire drivetrain and especially dual-clutch transmission technology. Bosch brings to the partnership its know-how in electrical machinery and the necessary power electronics.
Together we can offer automobile manufacturers a highly integrated and compact hybrid system that will enable low fuel consumption and excellent vehicle dynamics.
—Dr. Bernd Bohr, member of the Bosch Board of Management
Bosch announced in 2005 that it was developing a full family of hybrid drive solutions, and plans initial production of the first member—a micro-hybrid electronic start/stop system—this year. (Earlier post.)
Getrag had shown several hybrid system prototypes at IAA 2005 in Frankfurt, including a single-motor parallel mild-hybrid system and a two-motor powersplit full-hybrid, both based on the same Flexible Modular Hybrid platform.
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| Base FMH platform. | Additional of single motor (in green) for mild hybrid. | Addition of second electric motor for powersplit hybrid. |
| (Click to enlarge.) | ||
Resources:
Getrag: Technological Focus (IAA 2005)
I hope someone maks a hybrid manual too...
After the Insight dies in 2007 there won't be anymore manual shift hybrids... the manuals get better MPG, why are they being abandoned?
Posted by: Ash | 05 June 2006 at 02:43 PM
I suppose that there are 5- and 6-speed autos now coming on the market negates the MPG advantage manuals used to have. There's also a lot of manumatic-style transmissions also. You lose the clutch but keep control of which gear you're in.
Posted by: Cervus | 05 June 2006 at 04:10 PM
Electronically controlled dual-clutch step-by-step transmissions are preferable to automated single clutch solutions in that engine torque is never lost. That is because as one clutch disengages, the other engages and the pre-synchronized next gear immediately takes over. The process takes just ~40ms, even less than a gear change in a F1 car. Note that all automated step-by-step transmissions also permit manual gear changes using paddle shifters on the steering wheel. This is provided to accomodate driver preferences. However, there is no clutch pedal.
Last used by Audi for the rallye curcuit in the 80s, recent advances in electronics and software have greatly improved the level of comfort. It is by now comparable to a traditional AT with torque converter. Drivers do need to rev the engine higher in first and reverse gear and, remember to engage the emergency brake when stopped on a hill. Fuel economy is comparable to a manual, i.e. about 10% better than a traditional AT. Per unit of rated torque, dual clutch systems are more compact and the mechanical components are cheaper.
Btw: another German transmission supplier, LuK, published a similar hybridized dual-clutch transmission solution back in February:
http://www.all4engineers.com/index.php;/site=a4e/lng=en/do=show/alloc=3/id=3299
It uses only one 15kW motor, on the transmission side of the clutches (cp. motor #2 in the diagrams above). The dry clutch design was intended for compact cars with moderate engine torque (<250Nm). The electric subsystem used a small bank of ultracapacitors (for power bursts) plus a regular 12V battery (for slow charging in cruise mode).
Placing the electric motor on the transmission side permits smoother gear changes. Also, both clutches can be disengaged and the engine shut off during recuperative braking. Honda, Toyota and GM/DCX/BMW all have or are working on clutchless systems that do not allow the engine to be disconnected in this way, leading to pumping losses through the engine. These are relevant in ultracap-based systems that can support higher charge power levels than battery-based hybrids with similar electric storage weight.
Posted by: Rafael Seidl | 05 June 2006 at 05:10 PM
Anyone can explain me what the point of power split in this fixed gear drivetrain?
Posted by: Andrey | 05 June 2006 at 09:08 PM
Rafael,
The GM/DCX/BMW (Global Hybrid Cooperation based on the earlier Allison design) has three clutches including one on the input shaft so the pumping loss comments do not apply.
Posted by: Ruaraidh | 06 June 2006 at 12:43 AM
Here they are again. They continue their R&D as they did before. Now the big hope should be "power split...fixed gear etc. etc.". Maybe we see some first "promising" results in 2013. Unfortunately in the meantime, the USA has economically collapsed, because they are no longer able to finance the import of oil (trade deficit). The beginning of the gloom has just started: an ever depreciating US$ in tandem with rising interest rates. But not even the higher interest rates may attract foreign investors to finance the US trade deficit.
Posted by: quadour | 06 June 2006 at 02:16 AM
Does anyone know -- could this system operate as a plug in hybird electric vehicle (PHEV)??
Posted by: JJ | 06 June 2006 at 06:53 AM
Medium term, the CVT has to come online for medium and high power/torque engines. Keeping within the optimum power/torque band while being responsive has been the challenge with engineers. However, the advantage over a 4 speed auto (and less with 5 and above) is better theoretical acceleration (35%+) and fuel economy (20%+). That is the challenge, feed the performance demanding beast of the US consumer, but with better fuel economy. The only change to that would be sustained $5+ gallon of gas.
Posted by: allen zheng | 06 June 2006 at 07:05 AM
Ash, the manual is better in Honda's Hybrids. The Prius doesn't even have a transmission, it's in effect a one speed. Yes, they call it a CVT, but it's really just a simple planetary gearset controlled by amazing software....no clutches, torque converts, belts, nothing.
Posted by: Bud Johns | 06 June 2006 at 08:29 AM
Ruaraidh -
my mistake, thank you for the correction.
Quadour -
in Europe, the VW Golf RS32 (a diesel) is available with a dual clutch transmission. The technology is expected to gain significant market share in coming years. As for the US, go to your VW dealer and ask them when it will become available there.
JJ -
in priniciple, a dual clutch tranny could be used for a PHEV as well. Above 250Nm aggregate torque, you will need wet rather than dry clutches. Both types are already available from suppliers.
Allen -
Mechanical CVTs are becoming quite common (Mercedes A&B Class, Audi A6 & A8, Nissan Murano, ...) but they are not perfect, either. They do offer superior torque comfort, but they do constrain the engine to a narrow RPM range. That produces engine acoustics that some drivers say needs getting used to. But most importantly, they actually lose a lot of the fuel economy gained in engine operation in the required torque converter. Fuel economy gains relative in the single digit percentages at best - especially relative to high gear count manuals! Those allow you to upshift earlier, thus keeping engine RPMs low and load high, yielding better fuel economy.
Bud Johns -
the Prius transmission is a compound hybrid. Part of the power always traverses the electrical path, which may be coming from the battery. More usually, one motor is powered by electricity generated by the other. The power electronics in-between convert the frequencies, so the sun wheel and the planet carrier can rotate at any desired ratio of frequencies (within a certain range). It is a true CVT but suffers significant losses in the generator-power electronics-motor chain. These become more pronounced at high power levels (freeway, hill climbing) and are only partially offset by the Atkinson cycle detuning of the engine.
Posted by: Rafael Seidl | 06 June 2006 at 10:11 AM
Rafael -- Thank you very much. Ive been reading your posts for some time now and you are very knowledgeable and well spoken as well as you usually do not take sides and judge people or processes when you do post something -- you for the most part state the facts and leave it at that. Thanks again for your informative posts. -- JJ
Posted by: JJ | 06 June 2006 at 12:20 PM
Rafael:
Some engineers prefer to call Prius transmission “infinitely variable”, not CVT, probably because it has ability to go in reverse without switching gears. And yes, power pass which employs generation of electricity on generator with consequent use of it in electric motor, essential to operation of this type of transmission, wastes about 10% of the power. The good news is that this pass takes only about 10-20% of engine power in most driving modes (that's why it is also called power split transmission), and the rest of the power is transmitted purely mechanical way with efficiency close to 100%. It is very hard to get any detailed information on actual data for this transmission operation, so if anyone knows where to find it I would greatly appreciate the link.
Posted by: Andrey | 06 June 2006 at 08:22 PM
VW Golf RS32 diesel? Are you sure?
Are you not thinking of the R32 which has a 3.2 V6 petrol engine?
Posted by: James | 07 June 2006 at 02:53 AM
Quadour
The GM/DCX/BMW cooperative hybrid transmission is due for launch next year in a Durango. Not 2013 but 2007!
HTH.
Posted by: Ruaraidh | 07 June 2006 at 03:02 AM
Yeah I think he means the Golf TDI's (1.9 & 2 litre). Our local VW importer only brings in these diesels in DSG (dual clutch) form. They are as efficient as a manual, but actually quicker. Like the US, we in NZ are relatively new to diesel cars, but suddenly they are taking off (can you say high fuel prices).
I'm picking that the current stye of mechanically coupled hybrids will have a limited life. They seem to me to be overly complex systems. With current advances in electric motors and electronic power conversion systems, I think that overall transmission efficiency could be at least equivalent and it would end up much simpler. Of course Getrag is in the gearbox business...
Posted by: phillb | 07 June 2006 at 03:32 AM
Yeah I'm familiar with the Prius transmission...
A manual would stll get better MPG... but higher emissions, and would require a tottaly change of the way Toyota has designed thier hybrid :P
And no, newer dual-clutch automatics still don't negate the bonuses of a manual... the autos still weight more, and still have a higher rotating mass and friction -> higher efficiency loss.
They do shift fast, but that's really only good for drag racing.
Even with all the new types of transmissions... one still can't beat the efficiency of a manual transmission.
Posted by: Ash | 07 June 2006 at 06:16 AM
"The GM/DCX/BMW cooperative hybrid transmission is due for launch next year in a Durango. Not 2013 but 2007!"
Hee, haw hybrid trans in a Durango next year? That's a trojan horse - I'll believe it when I see it sitting on a showroom floor.
Posted by: fyi CO2 | 07 June 2006 at 12:41 PM
A parallel hybrid architecture that would only allow the engine to operate at high loads (and efficiencies) would potentially offer power-split level fuel consumption at lower costs due to a smaller battery pack and one less motor.
The dual clutch system does indeed allow very smooth shifting at high transmission efficiencies.Given that, would a parallel hybrid using a dual clutch transmission be able to quickly shift from using the motor(at low requested torques) to using the engine or both (at high loads) and thus allow implementing the strategy mentioned above? Other technical barriers that might come up?
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Posted by: Michael weng | 09 June 2006 at 06:53 AM
The transmission power loss in a hybrid is less important than 1)how much the vehicle weighs, and 2) how aerodynamic it is. Concentrating on cutting weight, drag and rolling resistance will pay off with higher mpg regardless of the transmission type. If you cut the frontal area and drag coefficient each by 25%, you will have 16/9, almost twice, the cruising mpg. If you cut the weight by 20%, you have 20% higher city mpg. Reduce performance (Horrors!) by 10%, you have a smaller engine, still more mpg. Add any hybrid technology, save another 30%. Add plug-in capability, and you can run your car on electricity at 2 cents a mile. That alone is worth 150 mpg. in gas pump cost. Why not do it all? We know how. We are going to have to force the auto companies to do this stuff, because they want to maintain course and speed with what they are selling now. Carbon tax, gas guzzler tax, high mpg. rebate, or screaming at your local dealer--do something! or nothing will happen.
Posted by: rich easton | 16 June 2006 at 12:50 AM
Hey conspiracy theorists. I have a good cosnpiracy for you.
The US EPA and CARB are fighting to prevent a virtually instantaneous rise in the the US CAFE by about 5 mpg.
How? They prevent the world's auto makers, GM, Ford, DCX, Honda, VW, and Toyota from building and selling much better mileage cars in the USA then the ones they have factoriess all tooled and able to build ..in Europe.
If we instructed them to stop opposing this, the CAFE of the US oculd rise overnight from 27.5 to about 32 mpg. How did they do this? By making it LLEGAL to sell Diesels that are allowed to be sold in the EU. They jsutify it by making up some esoteric rules that have little practical effect but serve to justify their sinecures and their jobs! Aah, Government at its finaest.
We all know the Europeans are absolutely opposed to any environemntal controls, and Greens have no hope there, so the rules the Europeans use to allow these Diesel must be evil. They would destroy the atmsophere if allowed into the USA or California.
If you want a conpiracy heres one. The solution? Fire all the auto emissions bureaucrats at CARB and the EPA and the world would be a better place.
I am sure we aren't doing that because a) Bush wants to reward his oil buddies and b) Ahrnold just loves all the graft that having CARB around allows. Sainted Boxer and Feinstein and Reid and Hillary, are just held on a leash and prevented from acting.
Seriously, hasn't the need for a state emissions agency come and gone? At one time CA had a more severe emissions problem and needed to act as a model for the central goverment. Federalism at it's finest: States as alboratories for democracy. The latest CARB standards are now no tougher than the national standards, so why the continuing need fro two bureaucracies? Especially since these have metamophosed into organizations fighting the improvement of the environment.
Political Inertia? No conspiracy! The Democrats don't wamt anyone to think that it is acrtually possible to kill a governmental bureaucracy once its created but no longer has a reason to exist.
Conspiracy! the Dems are colluding with Big OIL!
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