Malaysian Auto Company Launches Chinese SUVs fueled by Hydrogen and Gasoline Mixture
15 August 2006
Bernama. LM Star Autoworld Sdn Bhd (LMG), Malaysia’s latest car manufacturer, has launched two SUVs (LMG Tourer and Trekker) fueled by a combination of hydrogen generated on-board and gasoline.
The vehicles, introduced by Malaysian Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi at the Johor Baharu Expo on Tuesday, use a proprietary on-board hydrogen generator—called the “Hydroxene System”—to reduce the consumption of gasoline by up to 50%, according to LMG.
The on-board hydrogen system, developed by Malaysian scientist Dr Halim Mohd Ali, reportedly produces hydrogen and oxygen from water without using electrolysis, then injects the resulting gas mixture into the fuel-air charge for the combustion engine, boosting combustion.
The 2.4-liter engine in the LMG Trekker, which weighs 2,386kg (5,260 lbs) produces 124 hp (92.5 kW) at 5,250 rpm and 190 Nm (140 lb-ft) of torque at 3,000 rpm.
Technical details on the Hydroxene system are scant. For coverage of the launch—including pictures—and discussion, see Paultan.Org.
The basis for the Tourer and Trekker is a 2.4-liter Dadi SUV from Baoding Dadi Automotive Limited in China. LMG signed a franchise agreement in September 2005 to produce, assemble and market the SUVs outside China.
LMG CEO Abdul Uzza Shikh Mohamed said that the company would produce 18,000 units of the vehicles for sale in Malaysia, Dubai, Brunei, Indonesia and Singapore. Prices start at RM58,888 (US$16,000) for the Tourer and RM84,888 (US$23,000) for the Trekker.
Uzza said the company planned to launch seven more models of the Tourer and Trekker vehicles this year and next year, including models such as a 1.1-liter compact and 1.8-liter multi-purpose vehicle (MPV).
(A hat-tip to Rexis!)
LMG website (Under Construction)
How do they keep the resulting gas from recombining after the reaction? The resulting material would follow as such:
2Al + 2NaOH + 6H20 => 2NaAl(OH)4 + 3H2
Unless there is a thermalchemical conversion of NaAl(OH)4 back into AL and NaOH, this is a dead end.
Posted by: allen Z | 15 August 2006 at 06:10 PM
:) to mike
That is why all of us here are very puzzled about it, because all we know here is that the car run on hydrogen/gasoline mix and have a magic canister on board that can do hydrogen magic.
Plus, heck, it is not a concept, it is a production car. And they advertise it as "just add water". Until some real world run and some real world MPG data available, I think its too good to be true.
Posted by: rexis | 15 August 2006 at 06:31 PM
All for just $16,000! I'll buy two.
Posted by: Dursun | 15 August 2006 at 06:49 PM
how can it be converted back to Al ?
If this could be done at home, we can be free !
We can shit on Exxon, shit on Saudis and isalmofashist out there ...
this is my next project
Posted by: future | 15 August 2006 at 08:03 PM
Unfortunately, the engine weighs 2,386kg. Is it possible to install a smaller engine into a city car?
Hope they can do it next year.
Posted by: Rudyanto | 15 August 2006 at 08:24 PM
2Al + 2NaOH + 6H20 => 2NaAl(OH)4 + 3H2
are you sure this reaction is correct?
if we get alumnium hydroxide then:
When then heated to 1050°C, the aluminium hydroxide decomposes to alumina, giving off water vapor in the process:
2 Al(OH)3 → Al2O3 + 3 H2O
Posted by: itsme | 15 August 2006 at 08:28 PM
The clue we have here is:
Waste aluminium and NaOH
2 parts of water to replace 1 part of gasoline
5 years life span for the “Hydroxene System”
Form formula(by allen Z):
2Al + 2NaOH + 6H20 => 2NaAl(OH)4 + 3H2
Can anyone able to calculate for 1kg of Al how much NaOH we need and how much H2 we can produce? Also how heavy is the "6H2O" here in terms of ratio. We might have a clue inside.
From the 5 years life span of the “Hydroxene System” one guess is that they might need to replenish something in the magic canister.
There is no way that we can electrolysis that many water unless its a nuclear car.
From the Al and NaOH formula, does that mean thats how they produce hydrogen? Water add into the stock of aluminium and NaOH, creating reaction that produce H2. And the waste NaAl(OH)4 vented out. But no clue on where the water goes after entering the magic canister.
No idea what might nano technology means. Water filtering system that might filter NaAl out?
Posted by: rexis | 15 August 2006 at 08:38 PM
This formula looks more accurate.
2Al(s) + 6NaOH(aq) → 3H2(g) + 2Na3AlO3(aq)
Molar mass of "H2" is 2.0159 g/mol
Molar mass of "Al" is 26.9815 g/mol
Molar mass of "NaOH" is 39.9971 g/mol
Molar mass of "Na3AlO3" is 143.9491 g/mol
53.963 + 239.9826 -> 6.0477 + 287.8982
53g Al produce 6g of H2
1kg Al will only* produce 113g of H2
???? Okay, how many Al it will need to carry to last for 5 years. It must have some regenerative system to recycle the Na3AlO3 back to Al and NaOH.
Posted by: rexis | 15 August 2006 at 09:09 PM
This reminds me of the reverse Al to AL2O3 fuel cell used by some electric car enthusiasts here in the Chicagoland area. It was an expediant way to move Pacific NW hydro power to the midwest to run a car. Rather than pitch their aluminum drink cans, they burned them in their electric car!
Posted by: donee | 15 August 2006 at 09:27 PM
There is a company in Ontario called Dynamic Fuel Systems that offers an 'add on' for truckers that seems to be something similar, and which they claim will give way better mileage.
Something about generating hydrogen from a unit they install on a truck and injecting same into cylinders to enhance combustion.
They make it sound real, and claim to have tested and retested with excellent results. The reason, i think, that they are having troubles, is that any engine warranty is lost if you add on this system.
Dynamic have a web site; i'd be interested in feedback.
Posted by: tan | 16 August 2006 at 12:13 AM
They are in Moles, and the equation is balanced.
"produces hydrogen and oxygen from water"
The process calls for water (H2O), Lye (NaOH), and aluminum (Al).
My initial formula did not take the O2 into account. There may be a few ways for this to work:
a) during a regenrative cycle, the 2NaAl(OH)4 reverts back into 2Al + 2NaOH + 2H2O + O2
b) the resulting material also has NaAlO2 from Al + NaOH + H2O => NaAlO2 + H2. Afterwards, perhaps some chemical process:
1) reverts the NaAlO2 + H2O back into Al + NaOH.
2) converts the NaAlO2 into Al + Na + O2 through thermal decomposition.
c) aluminum are in fact nanoparticles and behave like a catalyst, continuously creating H2 from the reaction. Thermal and/or electric energy may be needed to sustain such reaction by some secondary process for NaOH.
Google Al+NaOH+H2O, the first 2 links from madsci.org
All this is conjecture until they release more info on their process.
Posted by: allen Z | 16 August 2006 at 06:42 AM
Hmmm, interesting. My guess is that it uses some type of bio-oil derived from snakes as the catalyst.
Posted by: Bob Bastard | 16 August 2006 at 12:24 PM
allen Z, can you estimate how many H2 I can get from like 1kg of aluminium?
Posted by: rexis | 16 August 2006 at 06:15 PM
" As simple as it sounds, Dr Halim is quick to add that the technology is difficult to copy, as it has a “secret recipe” which very few people know about.
“There are only 12 people in the world who know how hydroxene works and even then they only know 70% of the technology,” he said, adding that the core aspects of the technology remained with him."
I think the key is in this above statement. Usually snake oil salesmen will have a secret recipe know only to a few. Perhaps it is genuine however mentioning secret recipes lowers the chances.
Now it is quite likely something like this:
"Tareq Abu-Hamed, now at the University of Minnesota, and colleagues at the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, have devised a scheme that gets round these problems. By reacting water with the element boron, their system produces hydrogen that can be burnt in an internal combustion engine or fed to a fuel cell to generate electricity. "The aim is to produce the hydrogen on-board at a rate matching the demand of the car engine," says Abu-Hamed. "We want to use the boron to save transporting and storing the hydrogen." The only by-product is boron oxide, which can be removed from the car, turned back into boron, and used again. What's more, Abu-Hamed envisages doing this in a solar-powered plant that is completely emission-free. "
The boron can be apparently re-cycled by using renewable energy. Perhaps the secret recipe has got out after all.
Posted by: Ender | 16 August 2006 at 09:52 PM
Or even this:
http://ergosphere.blogspot.com/2005/06/zinc-miracle-metal.html which was from an article from GCC
Posted by: Ender | 17 August 2006 at 12:38 AM
For 2Al + 2NaOH + 6H20 => 2NaAl(OH)4 + 3H2:
~0.056 kg H2 per kg Al.
For Al + NaOH + H2O => NaAlO2 + H2:
~0.03735 hg H2 per kg Al.
___Like I stated before, this is all conjecture due to the scant data released thus far on this process. The reaction involved could use a different equation.
Posted by: allen Z | 17 August 2006 at 05:33 AM
Thats really a little hydrogen.
For your information, some of our motoring journalist are wondering why they are not informed and invited about the launching of this local made pickup and SUV(because it will be a breaking news) and everything being kept so secret as totally no news about it, they just launched it.
The reporters attended the launching are just normal reporters that will reproduce whatever you say and unlikely to ask any technical question.
Smell any snake oil?
In another source, Chinapress(in chinese) reported that they claimed this huge 2.4 tons pickup will do 28kmpl(68kmpl) which will put Toyota Prius to shame.
Posted by: rexis | 17 August 2006 at 06:10 PM
Correction: 28kmpl = 68MPG
Posted by: rexis | 17 August 2006 at 06:11 PM
If NaOH is a catalyst in the reaction, it shouldn't become NaAL(OH)4, should it?
Posted by: Ed | 17 August 2006 at 07:06 PM
Definition of catalyst is just to speed up some process without reacting the process. I suppose you are correct. Still, all the above just our assumsion, it is still unknown that if NaOH a catalyst or not.
Posted by: rexis | 17 August 2006 at 07:20 PM
It may just be simpler and cheaper to put a high-pressure hydrogen tank on board and use it instead. Since a very small percentage of H2 is used in comparison to gasoline, the size of compressed H2 is not a problem, and refilling or exchanging the H2 tank can be done once a month at designated locations. If a small amount of H2 can boost gasoline fuel economy by 20-30% as claimed by many, then the current high cost of H2 is no big deal, and can more than pay for itself.
The cleaner exhaust resulted from H2 injection should prompt California's CARB to investigate this practice. With widespread use of H2 injection in gasoline engine, we will see H2 filling or exchange infrastructure increase at a fast pace, thus making way for the eventual "Hydrogen Economy."
Posted by: Roger Pham | 17 August 2006 at 09:32 PM
Cannot be caustic etching reaction (Al + NaOH).
How about High-temperature (steam) electrolysis?
"High compression nanotechnology" was mentioned. It could be the technique to produce the porous dopped-metal oxide as solid state electrolyte between the electrodes. Multiple stacked cells for volume efficiency. nano-powder of Pt or carbon nano tubes can be made into porous electrode for greater surface area.
High temperature aid the rate of electrolysis, which is an endothermic process. Heat is a form of waste produced by the IC engine and can be easily scarvenged as suplimental energy to electricity.
It all these works well and sufficient amount of H2, which acts as supplimental fuel is produced, this might work.
However, do expect reduced engine output, as a compromise to improve fuel efficiency. BTW, "up to 50%" is just too good to be true.
Posted by: drexchan | 18 August 2006 at 03:40 PM
The article clearly stated that the on-board hydrogen generator produces hydrogen WITHOUT ELECTROLYSIS.
Unless they are trying to lie or misinform, then your theory is out.
Actually, there is nothing wrong with onboard high-temp electrolysis for production of H2 with recycled exhaust heat, as long as you can manage to get 800-1000 degrees C in order for the process to be sufficiently efficient. The cost and complexity is the major problem. Current Solid Oxide Electrolytic cells has a big durability problem, and only would have only 1/10 th the durability of the Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
Why not just carry on board a small H2 tank of ~5 gallons or so at 300 bar pressure, and fill it up at designated gas station. If H2 addition to gasoline engine is as good as it is claimed to be, then perhaps it would not be a big problem to persuade auto makers to provide this as an option. If cars will start to come out with onboard hydrogen tank, then gas station will start providing H2 fill up at the same time that gasoline is filled up. H2 can be produced on location economically by reformation of methane carried by natural gas pipeline, or from high-temp electrolysis, if the technology can be perfected.
Posted by: Roger Pham | 18 August 2006 at 06:16 PM
"It makes sense, really. Water as a supplementary fuel.
Water is everywhere. Water is cheap. Water is environmntally friendly. But until now, it has yet to be seriously considered. The cost to produce such technology is too prohibitive.
Until now, it is.
Introducing the LMG Tourer and the LMG Trekker. Two cars equipped with Hydroxene; a revolutionary new technology using water as a supplementary fuel.
It saves. It saves up to 50% petrol consumption. It saves you money. It saves the environment.
**You will believe.**"
ads at theStar 19th Aug 2006
Posted by: rexis | 19 August 2006 at 07:28 AM
What is making the car maker bluffing so big about this, unless they made the real thing. But really dont like the way they say like "only 12 people know the details of this technology and only me know the core elements."
Roger Pham: carrying a H2 tank may worth studying, H2 here act as fuel enhancer rather then fuel replacement, just like they mix H2 with CH4 and made hythene. But H2 tends to be very leaky, no matter how leak proof your tank is. This spark the interest to generate on demand H2. (plus, people may not like the idea to refill 2 types of fuel)
MyBoy: Why, I am a regular visitor of GCC :D
Posted by: rexis | 19 August 2006 at 07:37 AM