No mention of the cost of the fuel cell vehicle must mean that it's still orders of magnitude more expensive than even the "way too expensive" EVs that were dropped for lack of a viable market. I really don't understand how something more expensive that uses a new fuel that's only going to be available at a few places is going to do any better in the "free" market?

According to CNN, there is a bit more to this story.

"Way out in the future, the ultimate green car will be fuel cell vehicles," Fukui said. (Honda Chief Executive Takeo Fukui) "But in the meantime, you need a wide range of green technology to meet varying local needs and fuel supply."

I'll go along with that.

I'm an advocate for any sort of electric powertrain, hybrid, fuel cell or otherwise, as long as it helps us ditch the internal combustion engine, and helps individual societies achieve true energy independence. So the FCX announcement is positive news, no matter what the hydrogen economy detractors will say.

(Someone will probably pick on my comment about energy independence - I'll just refer you to one of the FCX's key testing grounds - a small Japanese island where hydroelectric power produced enough electricity to power both all the homes as well as make fuel for the fuel cell cars. A good microcosm if nothing else.)

Wintermane: In the not too distant future, the three points you attributed to Japan will apply to every country on Earth. Some countries will be able to grow a relatively small amount of biofuels, and coal will be here for the rest of our lifetimes (unfortunately). What I personally expect Japan to do is invest heavily in off-shore wind power. If they do not have any land, one thing that they do have is ocean, and seagulls don't vote.


SJC: Highly efficient PV arrays are a very attractive option, especially with the infant Nano revolution in full effect. I'm excited about the new film printing methods being developed. I am still much more confident about the future of wind power, however.

Here's a decent post on the economics of the FCX...

http://finance.google.com/group/google.finance.661440/browse_thread/thread/b80ee687e5246dd9/44ab358b7b3374ba#44ab358b7b3374ba

"Hydrogen economy: energy and economic black hole"

http://www.energybulletin.net/4541.html

Here's even more recent:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog1/?p=25

Hydrogen just has no place in (land-based personal transportation) vehicles.
It probably has a significant role to play in other modes of transportation, though.

To learn how much your particular car contributes to poor air quality and incedence of asthma in children, check out Environmental Working Group's Auto Asthma Index:

http://www.ewg.org/sites/asthmaindex/

Ok some simple facts.

The type 4 reactor produces MORE electricity then older reactors... AND produces a ton of h2. All using the same amount of fuel as the old reactors used just to make a smaller amount of electricity.

2 The fuel cell car does not need the equive of a 16 gallon fuel tank. It only needs a 4 gallon tank and that ALREADY allows a fuel cell car TODAY right this second on this very earthj in reality.. to drive 250 miles. And the next gen of fuel cells are more efficient and the next gen of fuel cell car will get alot more miles per kilo of h2...

3 they have boosted the efficiency of generating h2 quite a bit it no longer takes as much energy to do it.

4 Hybrid designs of the fuel cell car are ghetting very very high nilage per kilo AND in many cases can avoid using h2 for short trips altogether.

Now combine the errors you had and see the difference.

Where before you thought it would take 900 reactors... It now takes ... maybe 50 reactors. And that only if we JUST use those reactors and not solar and wind and wave as well...

So likely 25 reactors. And since we dont plan to replace them all overnight guess what we need in 2015? You got it NADA ZIP ZILCH new reactors.

But in 2020 when bunker fuel runs realy low and global warming has totaly fubared everything as far as outdoor ag... wont you be happy a few power plants will be able to prvide a few kilos of h2 for you to go to the beach on the weekends in the same car that runs on electric only most of the week in short trips?

Wont that be spiffy?

With current pricing of diesel fuel in US (10-15% more expensive than regular petrol), diesel cars have a limited market (except trucks for their torque) in US. I personally wanted to buy diesel volkswagen, but had no intention to buy mexican assembled jetta, and golf was not in the market. The fuel cost difference offsets the benefit of longevity of the diesel engine. So ended up buying Civic Hybrid, plus errogant VW dealerships would mark up over MSRP, while I got Civic Hybrid 500 USD below MSRP.

what is a csr?

Patrick -

see the link below for a novel approach to manufacturing composite pressure vessels for the pneumatic brake systems of HDVs and buses. It is based on cylindrical tubes (relatively easy to mass-produce) and two-piece inserts for the ends. Deformable wedge-shaped sections ensure that the circimference of the inner insert is pressed tightly against the cylinder wall when a tensile force is applied between the insert pieces during installation. A sealing compound is used as well, but the pressure load is balanced by friction alone.

The concept makes it easy to fashion tubular tanks of any desired length and could also be applied to carbon fiber composites. However, I know too little about it to assert that it would be suitable for overpressures as high as 700 bar.

http://www.all4engineers.com/index.php;site=a4e/lng=en/do=show/alloc=3/id=3237