Wow this sounds like PHEV's are getting close to reality.

Ge brings good things to life.Lets hope their financial muscle will give truth that old jingle.

Roger,

You know that EESTOR has always remained quite secretive or private so, even if they did have a prototype out, it is very unlikely they would be blowing their horn about it.

In fact, on March 25th, 2006 EESTOR held a 2 hour open house in their Cedar Park, Texas, headquarters, to demonstrate two FGC (Feel Good Cars) or ‘Zenn Cars’ (Zenn = Zero Emission No Noise) (http://www.zenncars.com/ ) out of Toronto, Canada that were reportedly equipped with EESU production level prototype storage devices.

The following month the Cedar Park News Flash (http://www.cedarparktx.us/cp/default.aspx ) published a PDF on the Open House event quoting Richard Weir CEO of EESTOR as saying:

“This is a very sophisticated electric car, with 250 to 300 miles of range,” Richard Weir, CEO, president and co-founder of EEStor said. “It’ll take a full electrical charge in about the time it takes to gas up a regular car. Just plug it up for a few minutes and you’re off.” Many auto manufacturers experimented with electric cars in the 1980s and 1990s but essentially abandoned the technology for hybrid or other alternative fuel systems due to their high cost of manufacture and maintenance. Weir believes EEStor has overcome those hurdles with their product. “This is just a preview of what’s to come…. seeing is believing.”

As soon as Mr. Weir got wind of the PDF he asked that the Cedar Park article be removed from the site & it was.

What Weir was referencing when he said ‘seeing is believing’ was most likely the EESU storage units that were installed in the Zenn vehicles and what follows is why.

One can download the specifications for the current layout of the Zenn at:

http://www.zenncars.com/brochure/images_brochure/PDFs/ZENN_Brochure_lr.pdf

Here one will see that the advertised range is currently 25-31 miles for the Zenn Car; nowhere near the 250 -300 mile range of the two Zenn vehicles that Weir was hosting at his EESTOR Open House. Currently the Zenn is fitted with 6 – 12VDC Lead Acid Gel Batteries for a total of 72 VDC operating voltage. In order to go 30 miles the Zenn in its current layout needs about 3.5 kWh of usable energy out those lead acid storage units.

For Weir to state that the Zenns on display at his Open House were good for 250-300 miles means that they would need to have been fitted with at least 29-35 kWh of his EESU devices ( why would he fit them with anything else?) and this only if the vehicles were to not exceed 25 MPH.

If the two Zenn Cars he prototyped at his Open House were to have speed limits of say 65 MPH, then the range of 250-300 miles would have necessitated EESUs with 54-65 kWh of storage.

Of course, this would also necessitate a larger electric motor than the Zenn’s current 5 horsepower motor but, that is quite doable. All the Zenn would need, to go 65 MPH, is a little more than a 20 horsepower or a 15kW motor. It looks to me like the veracity of the rumor that EESTOR already has production level prototypes in operation, has a pretty solid foundation.

It sounds like there is still no independent verification. Where's the beef?

Roger,

Both of the principals of EESTOR are well experienced in successful high tech start ups, management & large operations. The principals along with their quite famous & well heeled board of directors have enough funding amongst themselves to roll their business plan out very nicely & all by themselves, once they are certain it is a sure bet.

Coming off the start-line with funding provided by their chosen venture capitalists with a mandate for quietude is typical of experienced & successful startups. I doubt you will see any call for funding from them in the near future. The best thing to do now, to get in on the game, is to buy into those companies that license to use EESTOR technology. One remaining & very good reason to stay quiet is; when you are about to upset as big of apple cart as they surely are, and you already have the financial backing in place, why give the competition (read energy & other business giants) long term notice?

These guys have enough experience to know that the first tools the big boys use, is to send in their shills to build up public fear & doubt. You can even see it here on Green Car quite often. Remember how much anti-hybrid propaganda was circulating from the US automotive industry & even in the society of automotive engineering papers 10 years ago when Toyota & Honda were first promoting hybrid vehicles? Remember how many supposedly ‘expert-in-their-field’ scientists testified that tobacco was, ‘in-their-opinion’ not harmful to the body? Take a look at the ‘expert shills’ bearing testimony against climate change or global warming! Too many of us ignore these things & say things like; I’m not into conspiracies & etc. This attitude not only ignores lots of history & evidences but, leaves us wide open to be acted upon instead being the actors in our own lives.

Conspiracy is one of the dark-side’s most favored tools of dominion.

Well, if the shills don’t get the job done (sadly, they often do) then the big boys begin using the more expensive tactics (Fear & Doubt from paid shills were only their first line & cheap weapons). Next they begin doing just like was done with Ovonics or now Cobasys. They invest heavily enough into the burgeoning company to get some, if not all control; usually with misrepresentations & uncommitted hyperbole. You don’t have to buy controlling interest in a company to control it but, that is the best way. Chevron/Texaco/Cobasys has, since 2004 has caused Toyota & others, via lawsuit settlements, to remove large array NiMH high voltage batteries from the market place. It is most likely the RAV EV is not being made today because of this. It is possible that GM’s EV1 was removed from the market because of the early financial ties GM had to Ovonics, now Chevron/Texaco/Cobasys. Toyota agreed to pay out more than $30,000,000.00 to Texaco/Cobasys to settle & has been under contractual restraint to not use large array NiMH technology since 2004 and this will continue until mid 2007 when a small increase in array size will be allowed with further restraint until 2010 & then finally ending all restraints in 2014.

Recently we got notice of something that struck a bit of sadness in me. A123 entered into some sort of agreement with Cobasys. The details of the agreement are being held privately just as they were when Ovonics joined up with Texaco. I am certain that A123 was just as excited about this union, for funding reasons, as was Ovonics when Texaco came along several years ago & made all their promises to Ovonics while creating Cobasys . Well, Chevron bought Texaco & now A123 is in bed with a group that has actually & severely delayed EV, HEV & PHEV progress in the United States & other places throughout the world.

All of this has been done legally, lawfully & in the name of ‘Good Business.’ Our most revered institutions of higher education teach our brightest minds how to exploit human & natural resources, legally & lawfully, to the eventual harm of all by certifying these folks with highly esteemed degrees & lots of income. When you get the degrees & the money, it is pretty hard to turn your back on it when you know it means your livelihood will suffer so, you too turn your head & harden your natural ethics in the name of self & family preservation. One is slowly lulled into this mire & rarely escapes.

Sadly, gone are the days when ‘Good Business’ meant the betterment of our world & its inhabitants

EESTOR has been very wise in not allowing outside investors, not stirring up the enemy with more press releases than are necessary to keep their few venture capitalists happy. These guys have the potential to be a very big part the new irresponsible power upon the earth… or maybe they will choose to be good guys, either way the technology will be a blessing to our earth & its inhabitants!

Hi Rich,

You either haven't read the settlement or you are outwardly lying about it not saying anything about $30 million.

Since the settlement is not a part of public records; why don't you go read Ovonics' financial statement for July 2004 at:

http://www.ovonic.com/PDFs/Financial_Reports/form_8k/8k_mbi_patent_infringe_settlement_7july04.pdf

When done, come tell me how uninformed I am & we'll take the Chevron/Texaco/Cobasys & even GM EV1 story a little further.

Just in case you do not have a desire to look at the document, I have copied the following right out of the Cobasys financial report for all to see. Again this is from Cobasys’ financials… If you knew the rest of the story as well as I do, you would be very disappointed in how well I actually did get through all my 101 curriculum and even a little more. :)

The following is copied directly from the above referenced Ovonics (Cobasys) Financial Report for July 2004:

“Under the terms of the settlement, ECD, Ovonic Battery, Cobasys and MEI, PEVE, Toyota have entered into an agreement pursuant to which the parties have cross-licensed current and future patents related to NiMH batteries filed through December 31, 2014, effective upon the date of settlement. The licenses granted by ECD, Ovonic Battery and Cobasys do not grant rights to MEI, PEVE or Toyota to use the licensed patents to (i) offer for sale certain NiMH batteries for certain transportation applications in North America until after June 30, 2007 or (ii) sell commercial quantities of certain transportation and certain stationary power NiMH batteries in North America until after June 30, 2010.

Further, under the terms of the settlement, Cobasys and PEVE have agreed to a technical cooperation arrangement, including access to suppliers, to advance the state-of-theart of NiMH batteries, which are widely used in hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs). Cobasys and PEVE have also agreed to collaborate on the development of next-generation high-performance NiMH batteries for HEVs. In addition to manufacturing their own line of NiMH batteries, Cobasys will be the distributor of PEVE’s NiMH batteries to certain markets in North America through June 30, 2010.

Payments ECD and Ovonic Battery will receive a non-refundable patent license fee of $10 million in consideration of the licenses granted to MEI/PEVE with respect to NiMH batteries for consumer applications.

Cobasys will receive a non-refundable patent license fee of $20 million in consideration of the licenses granted to MEI/PEVE and Toyota, of which $4 million will be placed in escrow to be used to pay PEVE upon reaching certain milestones under the next-generation highperformance NiMH battery module development project plan. Cobasys will, upon the receipt of the funds, pay Ovonic Battery $8 million and pay ChevronTexaco $8 million as partial reimbursement of legal expenses.

Cobasys will also receive royalties through December 31, 2013, on certain NiMH batteries sold by MEI/PEVE in North America.”

Come on back Rich, I can expose far more than this tidbit if needed.

Best Regards,
Wayne Brown

From your first statment...
"Chevron/Texaco/Cobasys. Toyota agreed to pay out more than $30,000,000.00 to Texaco/Cobasys to settle & has been under contractual restraint to not use large array NiMH technology since 2004 and this will continue until mid 2007 when a small increase in array size will be allowed with further restraint until 2010 & then finally ending all restraints in 2014."

Again, there is nothing in here, which states that large NiMH arrays cannot be sold or design. There are restrictions upon PEVE in accordance with the 'arbritration' agreement by both parties. Other companies could give it a go. OR as your mentioned, 'good business' hurting the world or some such. Perhaps we should just throw out all IP laws for which the United States of America is based upon since basically the Declaration of Independance?

"Since the settlement is not a part of public records; why don't you go read Ovonics' financial statement for July 2004 at:"

Actually, your information (Cobasys financial report) is basically straight from the public record shown here...

"MBI SETTLEMENT - RELEASE OF 7/7/04" =>

http://tinyurl.com/34rg3r

Back to your financial information... $20M paid to Cobasys, of which $4M may be paid back to PEVE. Also, Cobasys pays it's owners $8M each, that being Chevron (the big money and oil) and ECD (owners of the original patents for the NiMH and where the lawsuit generated in the first place). As I understand it, way back when PEVE (aka owned by Toyota partially) was licensed to use NiMH, they were allowed to do it in Consumer Electronics, by which Toyota/PEVE said, okay, a car is a consumer electronic... hence the Prius.

That is only $20 million - $4, so you end up getting paid possibly $16, of which Cobasys essentially doesn't get any and most end up going to lawyers anyhow.

I do not have time to read up on your links, but I will and look forward to reading about yourself. You sir are an inovator and not one of the standard 300+ million consumers in America.

Rich

Rich,

I see where you might not understand the public record in that MEI/PEVE is Panasonic EV which is a Toyota controlled company so, when it says MEI/PEVE, it is Toyota Motor Corp that is getting out it's wallet because the only cars being sold in the US with PEVE NiMH right now are Toyota hybrids.

See: http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/05/1005_2.html

Hi Andrey,
Thanks for the concern. I'm trying to keep an open mind. I was initially skeptical of EEstor, but with additional info from Wayne Brown, who is a highly-knowledgeable, high-caliber engineer, I feel somewhat more assured.
What is your take on this, Andrey?

This is indeed an exciting time, for no matter what's one's belief or who one works for, technologies are getting close to allowing us to wean off our petroleum dependency and clean up our environment. Even Big Oil should be happy, since oil won't last forever, and we are all in the same boat (Earth) together. With Big Oil's power and resouces, they should gradually be able to maneuver quite deftly in order to acquire a new piece of the action and back in the game again, hopefully this time for the better good of the environment and of humanity. History will often repeat itself! The rich will get richer...but the environment and our future generations don't have to suffer as the result.

Paranoia? hmmm... It is interesting that a программист with a Инженер-электрик from Минск, Беларусь can make such a fine diagnosis over the internet.

Regarding conspiricy theories to suppress technological breakthroughs, I don't buy it. Powerful organizations like governments are very good at commiting mass murder, theft, and repression. But, they cannot supress ideas or technical information because they flow easily through cyber-space. For example, if a breakthrough technology such as desktop cold fusion were discovered, no power on earth could prevent people from building it. The same is true for super capacitors, patents or no patents. Most people in the world don't care a crap about US patents

Wayne Brown certainly sounds very well-informed about EV's and his facts about NMH technology are disturbing if true. And, I admit to not understanding because I have seen, on the web, NMH golf cart batteries with good specs for sale at reasonable prices. So, how are they being suppressed? If large format NMH are protected by patents, why don't people in China and India produce them for their own people? If they can produce nuclear weapons, why can't they copy a large format battery.

I hope that EESTOR's claims are true and have been excited about them ever since I heard them a year ago. They originally said they would have a working unit in 2006. Now, they say 2007. I hope so. The world needs a breakthrough battery.

The statement, "It looks to me like the veracity of the rumor that EESTOR already has production level prototypes in operation, has a pretty solid foundation." is based on the word of one person, Richard Weir, who is NOT an independent observer. One good sign is that he is not hawking for investor money with non-stop press releases like some other battery companies.

Hi Wayne,

Yes, read briefly your links and it is some cool stuff you have done.

I missed the $10M paid in licensing fees... I would guess that Cobasys 'might' be willing to let you make NiMH battery systems for whatever, if you were willing to ante up the price to get in the game...

Of course, you would have to get a hold of them and appearantly either your offer wasn't big enough or like you said, they just don't want into the game you are talking.

Now, perhaps you are right and we should all sit around a fire and sing kumbia or something and ask all patent holders in the US to no sue anyone... ask M$ to just lay down and ignore all the pirated versions of the OS out there and ask Google, Apple and all hell, lets just throw in the largest patent holder, IBM, to just give up and not protect their IP.

Jus' saying.

Wayne -- Thank you for expaining to me how the commercialization of NiMH is being impeded. It is a rip-off, a clear violation of the free market. Building a product from off-the-shelf parts and selling it is honest production and trade which is supposed to be protected by law. This situation is nothing like buying one copy of a software product and then re-selling multiple copies which is not honest. It does now look to me that EV's are being obstructed.

I have two questions if you have the time. You mentioned 18 Ah. This figure does not tell me the energy (watt-hours) because I don't know the voltage.

I am also curious about the life of NiMH. Did they last for 135,000 miles for you? If so, I would say that is pretty damn good.

Regarding the EV1, my info comes solely from a post by a guy who claimed that he was on the EV1 team at GM. He sounded very knowledgeable about the facts and he dismissed all conspiracy theories outright. He was very critical of the EV movie. He said that the battery killed EV1. He said that the lead-acid battery was expected to last for three years but had to be replaced every six months at a cost of $1,800 or $3,600 per year which made the business uneconomical.

Now, if NiMH can last 100,000 miles, the EV1 problem would be solved.

On a related note, recently there was a photo in my local newspaper showing a guy with an EV that he built in his spare time. He works in a body-shop and built his EV on weekends. He gutted a used chevy S-10, installed an electric motor with six lead-acids under the hood and eighteen more in the bed. He has a top speed of 70 mph and a range of 72 miles, and he drives it every day. Nothing was said about battery life. Isn't it amazeing that a backyard mechanic with no formal education and little money can build a highway capable EV in his spare time while multi-billion dollar GM can't do it.