God news. Perhaps even of historical importance. Tanfield/Smith is probably the first company ever to sell a 100% electric van that is approved for highway driving and is not some sort of prototype. This is real and it sells without a subsidy.

It is also very interesting that they use a Sodium Nickel Chloride (Zebra) battery rather than a lithium battery. Such a battery is also used in the Think minicar (also highway capable) that will go on sale later this year in Norway. I never thought these batteries would be used because of their high operating temperature. The key advantage again appears to be the low price of these batteries.

I see that Sainsbury's (the UK supermarket group), as well as taking their first few Edison vans, have committed to replacing their entire urban home delivery fleet with battery powered vehicles within less than 3 years. The majority of trials prior to now, by Sainsbury's and others, have been within London, where special cost benefits apply (eg, free parking for zero-emission vehicles, and exemption from congestion charges). Sainsbury's have presumably concluded that electric vehicles are commercially viable nationwide - even in areas where no concessions apply. I know they have been trialling the (bigger) Smith Faraday electric vehicle since July last year - and their apparently favourable conclusion will surely prompt some serious attention from other fleet owners.

I believe DHL are at the Smith stand at the CV Show tomorrow - so maybe there is further news to come.

OK so Fiat manufactures and sells one. Maybe the secrecy is an effort to avoid any bad publicity should they decide to pull the car from the market (like the EV1 for GM). Still seems strange. The Think is no secret: See www.think.no The site is in Norwegen though.

What are the main reasons why major car manufacturers spend $ billions to increase the performance of ICE vehicles by 10% and not a dollar to produce pure Electric or PHEVs.

Something is not right somewhere.....

If more cities would advantage clean vehicles like London, more electric city delivery vehicles, electric/PHEV taxis, mini-buses, private electric cars etc would hit the the streets.

One could even go further and progressively tax and/or ban (over a 10-15 year period) high pollution vehicles from city streets. This would help polluted cities like LA, Mexico, Tokyo, Calcutta, New Delhi, Beijing, Shanghai, Paris, Sao Paulo, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, etc.

tripp:

If that's the case, let WalMart, CostCo, SamClub, Sears, Canadian Tires, etc sell EVs + replacement (or rented) batteries and progressively do away with current ICE car dealership-maintenance setup.

Rented standardized (plug-in) battery packs could become a good business proposition. People could rent the pack they require or can best afford and progress with time and/or their fortune. Battery packs from $2K to $20K could suit most requirement and pocket-book, specially if rented. Price would come dowm quickly enough with mass production and worldwide competition.

Harvey.D.

I think the rented battery pack approach is one which does deserve wider consideration. In the UK, the second biggest maker of electric vans this year will be Modec EV - and they offset the initial purchase price by selling their vans with a "Batteries Not Included" tag. Buyers will instead rent a battery pack from Modec at about £450 ($225) per month.

A battery-swap facility (a bit like the system used when trading in empty camping-gas bottles for full ones) would also do away with the near for a lengthy (or overnight) recharging stops. The driver could just swap a depleted pack for a fresh one. Though with batteries currently accounting for half the cost of the vehicle, I don't envisage drivers being too keen to hand in one pack and trusting that the replacement isn't cracked or faulty.

battery rental is also a way for governments , here in europe
that is, to levy some sort of tax on road use of EV´s I noticed
that Think will be renting the battery for their car ,that is if I understood
the norwiegen correctly .
In the future you will see batterys with embedded computers to
store all the information relating to status of the battery , cycles
charged, kwh in , kwh out ,etc making it nice and easy to slap some
nice big tax on it . I would also think that car companies are looking
for ways to block batterys once a certain number of cycles is achived,
making replacement a necessity, to create money for their impoverished
shareholders.

The Norwegen Think minicar also rent its Zebra battery. The car costs USD 33.300 (NKR 199.000) and the mandatory service contract on the battery cost USD 203 a month (NKR 1218 incl. VAT). This appears to be the preferred business model for all real highway capable BEVs. The net present value of an indefinite annuity of 203*12 at 15% discont rate is USD 16240. This is about the actual price of the Think car’s 25 kWh battery. That is USD 650 per kWh. For comparison the Phonix car uses a USD 70000, 35 kWh Altair lithium battery or USD 2000 per kWh. And the KillaCycle uses a USD 12000, 7,5 kwh A123 lithium battery or USD 1600 per kWh.

Sure this Zebra battery looks like a much more successful business model than the lithium batteries at the present prices.

Harvey D. you were right about the idea for renting the battery that is what they do it. However, you are way of with a 2K estimate for the low end of a suitable BEV battery. It starts at 15K for this small Think car. The lack of suitable and affordable batteries is the most important explanation that BEV have taken a long time to develop. The second most important reason is cheap gasoline. The US complains about $3 gallon. We Europeans pay $6 gallon and we don’t complain. The conspiracy theory about EVs is pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Andricose they say “NKR 1218 a month for leasing/service of the battery” on the Think website. It is of cause a leasing fee but service also sounds good perhaps since consumers may worry if this battery works. I am not Norwegian but Danish and I am almost sure that the USD 33.300 includes a huge special tax on cars. In Denmark we pay 160% in taxes on new cars and the same could be true in Norway. E.g. if Fiat charges USD 10000 for a car in Denmark we pay 10000+16000 = 26000 for the car. I am sure the Think car is competitively priced in Norway. In fact they show that the $203 monthly leasing fee is about equal to what an average driver will save in annual car taxes, gasoline, and when combined with a Oslo city ring charge (EVs do not pay to enter the capital of Norway). Plus Norwegens are lucky and blessed with more oil and natural gas income per capita than any other country in the world (several times bigger than the Saudis). They are loaded and they pay very low income taxes.

The most effective way a company the size of ford has to get into ev is to buy the tiny company and absorb all its ip and such. That is vastly cheaper and there is little risk involved...

Found an old story at GCC about DaimlerChrysler Confirms Launch of smart EV http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/07/daimlerchrysler.html#more. Very interestingly they also outfit their smart fortwo minicar with the Zebra Sodium Nickel Chloride battery. They are leasing the hole system car + battery for US$682 a month for trial customers of their prototype car. This is very expensive assuming an indefinite annuity at 15% discount rate it translates to a net present value of (682*12)/0,15= USD 54560. The comparable price of the Think car is 33.300 +16240 = 49540. As previously mentioned that price probably include a 15000 Norwegen car tax so the out of factory cost for the Smart car is 49540 – 15000 = USD 34540. I do not think the Daimler Chrysler price include any car tax of importance so the Think is much cheaper than the Daimler Chrysler offer.

You know, had Think or Daimler Chrysler used lithium batteries we would need to add at least $15000 on top of the price of these cars. In that case the lease for the Think cars battery would be $400 which is about $200 short per month of being competitively priced in Norway. It may work in London though because EVs is excepted for extremely high fees for parking and entrance to the London city ring.

Still the US automakers need to “get of their buts” as Arnold told them recently. Maybe they are not impressed about what Arnold tells them but I am sure that today’s news this morning at BBC that Toyota has sold more cars than GM in the first quarter of 2007 is going to wake them up big time spilling coffee all over while reading the headline: Toyota is now the world’s biggest car producer second to none. When Toyota start selling their next generating Pirus with lithium battery which is supposed to cost 50% of their current NiMh battery pack price I predict the next big shock wave is going to be the exploding sales figures for this Pirus. Good luck Detroit you will need it!

Harvey I share you hope that battery prices will drop importantly as they start to get into volume production. The Beijing 2008 electric garbage trucks story I saw here at GCC and I don’t believe it for a minute. It is a media trick to promote China at the Olympics. Battery packs are globally priced like crude oil. If there is a difference in price at the consumer level it is due mostly to taxes. Prices are always set foremost at how much you can get for it and secondly at how much the cost to produce. China has a 10 to 30% cost advantage for the time being. However, time will erase that when the currency is adjusted and their salaries increases.

200 million is cheap compared to what they pay to do thier own work. The think just likely got gobbld for ip.