Is it really necessary for the "right thing" to be done for a reason you agree with in order for it to be palatable to you? Can't two people, one of which desires energy security, the other who desires doing something about climate change, agree on a similar course of action for different reasons?

Frankly, it's a fallacy that everyone has to march lockstep ideologically in order to agree on something. But in today's hyper-partisan atmosphere, I guess the "right reason" has more weight than it really should, IMO. This is why we spend so much time arguing instead of finding common ground.

This is much more significant than any "Demonstration Experiment" of a one-off prototype. This is a production order replacing a substantial portion of King County's bus fleet. It is also a nice purchase and confirmation of the GM dual-mode hybrid technology.

There is another benefit. The more experience and success with the dual mode hybrid drive the better. It will help the engineers to perfect the digital control systems that optimize the hybrid's potential. That optimization task offers the prospect of further marginal improvement without any further investment other than a new and improved software load.

It also offers the engineers an opportunity to see if there are design improvements in the dual mode technology itself. For example, the dual mode has 4 fixed speed gear ratios, yet 5, 6, and 7 speed transmissions have shown to be marginally even more efficient. Perhaps a future dual mode will have a six speed transmission.

Now if we would only replace those lame Breda trollybus things with a decent series hybrid.

Quite interesting report of automotive journalist test-drive of GM hybrid bus, with technical details and pictures:

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_2906/article.html

BTW, this hybrid drivetrain was developed to satisfy extremely tough smog-forming emission standards for city transit buses of CARB/EPA. GHG reduction was not such popular at the time.

Major competitors of GM/Allison hybrid buses are Daimler-Benz spin-off Orion with very similar hybrid bus, and wide variety of CNG fueled buses (stoichiometric combustion, spark ignition) with 3-way cat converters.

Forgot to mention Metro provides bus and other transportation services in Seattle and the surrounding towns and suburbs of King County, Washington.

Now I just have to lobby them to up their fuel-mix to B50 or higher!

I wonder is the articulation a big facter on Seattle streets?
The Orion VII bus a series hybrid with better performance.

BAE HybriDrive® Propulsion Overview

Dezakin,
The thing about trolleybuses is that they could be now or in the not too distant future carbon neutral. A series hybrid is a ways off yet and still uses petroleum fuel.

Is carbon neutral "lame"?

gee, 1200 GM hy-brid buses @$800,000 in N America saving us 1.75 million gallons @$3.00/gal of fuel each year they operate...which means we will be spending $960,000,000 to save $5,250,000/year...so it looks like it will only take the taxpayers 183 years to break even.

gary,

Instead of trying to break even on the whole cost of the bus, why don't you look at the cost difference between a non-hybrid bus and the new flyer hybrids. That is really the cost difference that would need to be made up by not only fuel cost savings, but also maintenance costs, parts and repair costs, etc. Not to mention trying to put a cost on the amount of greenhouse gasses that are not being put in the air, thus improving the air quality.

Looking at a cost like this with no context obviously puts it in the worst possible light, and ignores all the benefits. What would you do instead? These busses have to be replaced, as they are mandated to replace the busses after a certain number of years.

@Dezakin

Not all trolly buses in Seattle have dual drive. Most actually do not. There were some that were used in the tunnels that had both but those are being fazed out. The mass majority of the electric buses in Seattle are electric only, and to me these are by far the preferred route, especially considering how much electricity we get from hydro.

Yes, I remember that article. Some bright bunny had decided to test the busses on highway routes. No small wonder there weren't any fuel savings. That's the danger of news paper headlines.

Two words: bus tunnel. A primary reason for the adoption of these buses was their considerably lower emissions profile, thus the ability to run in Seattle's rather unique downtown bus tunnel without using the unrealiable diesel/trolley Breda buses. Many of the hybrids were initally introduced on long distance commuter routes where the fuel consumption improvements were marginal except for the relatively small downtown portion.