Throw in a six-speed dual-clutch tranny instead, with at least one overdrive gear, and you should get another 2-3MPG. Four-speed conventional ATs are dinosaur technology, what's it doing in a hybrid?

I think GM's compact front-drive 6-speed automatic is debuting this year in the Malibu. Historically they have refrained from buying automatic transmissions from outside suppliers (ZF, BorgWarner, Jatco) and it seems like when they do release new units, they are very slow and careful about the rollout (witness the speed at which they are rolling out their 6-speed automatic for pickups and traditional SUVs). Plus, they seemed to skip a generation of 5-speeds that many competitors made, and are trying to go directly from 4-speeds to 6-speeds. I guess given their history in automatics it would be rough on corporate pride to have to buy automatics from outside suppliers like some other automakers do.

Yes the 4-speed is out of place in this vehicle, but keep in mind that it's also a "mild hybrid on a shoestring budget, retaining as much existing engineering as possible" product. It's not really intended to be cutting edge.

No doubt they will use a very tall final drive ratio to keep RPM low at highway speeds, in conjunction with electronic throttle and occasional electric assist to keep it from having to unlock the torque converter or kick down to 3rd for climbing grades. Having driven several late-model GM vehicles with legacy 4-speeds and electronic-throttle, I can tell you that it takes a pretty dramatic input from the driver to get any change in gearing. It feels like they will go to almost wide open (electronic) throttle while holding lockup in 4th before doing anything else. Overall I don't think it hurt their highway economy much. But obviously the lack of ratios down lower had quite an effect on the city economy, forcing more operation in sub-optimal RPM ranges and limiting the amount the torque converter can be locked up.

That does remind me of a recent surprise, though, as a product of GM continuing with their tall final drive ratios and 4 speed transmissions, even as their engines start to move to higher rev capability; floor it in some of the big V6 GM sedans 90 mph you will get *second gear *. First runs to about 50.

@Raf

I think they are using the 4-speed AT because it's cheap cheap cheap, and their goal all along has been to make the BAS hybrid system the most cost-effective hybrid solution out there. Last time I checked, the Toyota Highlander Hybrid outperforms the Vue in every category, but it costs US$9000 more!

Now if only they could put this relatively low-cost hybrid system in something more reasonably-sized like a Chevy Cobalt or Saturn Astra, and make it cost less than 20 grand.

The 2007 model was rated 27/32. Granted, that was under the old EPA test cycles...

Presumably the new body shape has a lower coefficient of drag to help the highway mileage, though I can't find a published figure. The 2007 was apparently .36

@Jack-

Highlander costs US$33,700 MSRP, $39,950 for the limited edition. Vue Green Line costs $24,795.

Difference in cost = $8,905 for basic hybrid, 15,155 for the limited.

Highlander gets slightly better city mileage, but way worse highway mileage, and is much quicker accelerating due to the bigger engine.

Any questions?

Highlander gets slightly better city mileage, but way worse highway mileage, and is much quicker accelerating due to the bigger engine.

Any questions?

No, just a statement - enjoy your apples and oranges.

@Jack

I'm still confused as to what you're trying to actually argue. Are you disagreeing with me that mild hybrid technology delivers a better bang for the buck than the costly - but more effective- HSD/Escape technology?

What's the point of developping new mid size SUV, they are not roomier than mide size sedan, they don't offer more safety, their drag sucks, not mentionning their poor road grip. 30MPG is still poor mileage the technnology can do much better than that. Will america wake up from this excessiveness culture that is just going nowhere ?

Be responsible, if you believe in a future for your children, drive a fuel efficient car.

To make a slightly less subjective and more numerical comparison of the two systems, the belt-alternator starter system delivers 27% improvement in economy for an extra $3,345. The HSD system delivers a 33% improvement in city driving, and a 4% improvement in highway driving for $6,400. The choice is going to depend on your needs - highway or city. Personally I say if you don't need the freeway to get to work you should be riding a bike, but the point is that the BAS system gives a very good bang for the buck, and the relationship between price and fuel economy improvements is not a linear one.

As for "markup", if you mean to say that GM is selling the BAS system at a loss just to improve its image, please give some economic or manufacturing data to show that.

To make a slightly less subjective and more numerical comparison of the two systems, the belt-alternator starter system delivers 27% improvement in economy for an extra $3,345. The HSD system delivers a 33% improvement in city driving, and a 4% improvement in highway driving for $6,400.

Where in the world do you get $6,400 as the premium for a real hybrid? That's ridiculous. It's about $4,200 before the tax credit. It drops to $1,200 with the tax credit. The premium for the Vue is $3,100 and about $2,500 after the tax credit.

As for fuel economy boost, it's 45% for the Escape and 24% for the Vue. So you substantially overstate the price premium of a real hybrid and substantially understate its efficiency gain.

There's also a tailpipe emissions improvement with the real hybrid and not with GM's mild system on the Vue.

"Where in the world do you get $6,400 as the premium for a real hybrid?"

Price difference between Toy Highlander Hybrid and standard car with the same size and power ICE. With the Ford Escape, difference between the hybrid and the model with the exact same 2.3L I4 engine under the bonnet, is $8,267.

Including tax credits in the equation is short-sighted because those are a temporary political interference in the free market. It may be a mild, assist-type hybrid, and inferior to a strong hybrid, but it still delivers a surprisingly impressive benefit for the low amount of money it actually costs. The point that really needs to be made - and that you are distracting from by splitting hairs - is that GM should be including this affordable system on more compact cars - not just SUVs. That would help more than just its image - it would help make hybrid technology much more widespread and affordable for the average person.

All these discussions about the comparative advantage of Saturn Vue vs Ford Escape are just air, these vehicules do not bring any significant progress in helping america to reduce its addiction to oil neither it adresses the problem of reduction of green house gas seriously. They are baby steps, they don't even meet the future average standard of CAFE when Toyota Prius and Toyota Camry pass them. Given the emergency of these problems we need giant steps...

Dollared

You are probably right, the problem is that we are not taking the direction of the 25-30% reduction you wish, if you look at the last post on the sales of cars in US between 2000 and 2007 posted recently on this website, the sale of vehicle with mileage between 15-20 went up by more than 10%, the sales of vehicles with mileage below 20MPG still represent 50% of the cars and light truck sales in this country. I don't see anything being done (except toyota) to try to reverse the trend of the "ever bigger and bigger". Talking about women now : most of men I know, who bought a SUV, admit that they did it because their wife ask them to do it...don't get me wrong, I am addicted to women but they can have a terrible influence on men sometimes...

But you are right letus ignore the unbearable beefy side of america and let's get back to work at trying to do our best in the right direction