Seems like we are in a race to see which comes first; runaway climate change or shortages of all fossil fuels. Either way I don't see a happy ending.

K the speedup of Southern Ocean winds is highly unpredictable, like Gulf of Mexico hurricanes. No-one seems to know what to expect next.

How odd, that atmospheric carbon dioxide levels are pretty much exactly where they were expected to be and are certainly not showing any dramatic acceleration. Could this be another case of the virtual world predictions not matching the real world?

The only thing that can be accurately measured is in the curve presented is the amount of fossil burned. If someone wants to pick a point in time where the economy is slowing and compare it to a time the economy is accelerating, then I might be justified in calling them fear mongers without any scientific credibility. I predict in the actual report they call for more funding of their research.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the rate has gone up only since Al Gore went on his globe-spanning environmental crusade. Even I wouldn't have expected his personal contribution to be so great, however.

Did I mention I'm a petty partisan twit?

You misspelled 'humorless twit'.

Good Lord, Jack...that's about as weak a comeback as "I'm rubber, you're glue..."

FAIL.

P.S. You're fat.

A "Carbon Goods Tax" on offshore foreign goods will both inhibit uncontrolled expansion at the expense of clean air and water and promote the "Grown at Home" campaign.

"Grown at Home" is the return to locally grown and manufactured goods eliminating the long distance carbon transport cycle and supporting local economies. Lower carbon foot prints mean buying less carbon heavy merchandise from carbon emitting manufacturers.

gr has a good point.

Along with a domestic carbon tax it makes sense to have a duty on imported goods from countries without a similar tax. This would encourage relocalization for food and manufactured goods, encourage other countries to enact a carbon tax and discourage long distance shipping.

However, we would not want to penalized a responsible person or company in an irresponsible country.

I would say the proposals of gr, glenn, and JMartin are proof that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

First a carbon tax on imports is proposed. And it isn't to be a simple tax on imported fuel but a hideously complex calculation to define "carbon heavy merchandise from carbon emitting manufacturers."

This selective tariff by another name would violate the international trade treaties. But that might be fixed by negotiations. In a decade or so.

What will not be fixed is the labor cost advantage that manufacturers enjoy overseas. 'Grown at Home' would widen that gap.

glenn wants a domestic carbon tax and tariffs on countries that don't have a similar tax. Again all sorts of problems with trade treaties. Plus an added complication:

"we would not want to penalize^ a responsible person or company in an irresponsible country."

And how do we identify the good guys in irresponsible countries?

And lastly, a Modest Proposal. Let's not fund the $46B for Iraq if Bush won't tax foreign oil by the same amount?

Well, the Democrats tried that. They passed bills that tied funding to other matters. Bush vetoed the bills and stared Congress down. He would again, with the same outcome.

It a bad idea to bundle serious matters into one bill anyway. A politican should vote for or against funding as he thinks best. And he should vote for or against some tax as he thinks best.

Roping a dog to a cow does not produce a versatile watchdog that gives milk. The likely result is a dead dog after the cow rolls over at night. But maybe you will get a tormented cow that produces no milk.

K,

Change is good. So, let's scrap the trade agreements and stop global warming. Step one - the "carbon goods tax" aka import duty, escalating/de-escalating by national volumetric CO2 measured on semi-annual basis. Country A's CO2 volume increases - so does the carbon goods tax. While import duties sound ominous it's just another way to pressure industrial economies to expand responsibly. Taxes don't have to cause retaliation.

True, Grown at Home manufacturing will not readily compete against foreign without the carbon goods tax, but hey, do we want to face the foreign CO2 and pollution problems now or swim in the arctic ocean?

K,
"Your tax on carbon here makes domestic costs go up. Your tax of carbon imports also makes domestic costs go up."

I have not proposed a domestic carbon tax. Only the import carbon tax fixed to the cumulative carbon emissions by nation. It's a little like saying "Be wary of that British beef - they have a mad cow problem." Of course should there be a dog roped to the cow, it may pass for a harmless blind cow with canine assistance. Either way, the beef is tainted by perception which lowers its value. And urges England to do better (with mad cows.)

You're right, the arctic ocean comment is inane.

gr: Thanks for the courteous reply. It seems you didn't propose a domestic tax.

My mistake came from what Glenn wrote at 1:57.

"gr has a good point.
Along with a domestic carbon tax it makes sense to have a duty on ........."

So, I can't tell if Glenn was thinking you advocated the domestic tax. Perhaps he meant he advocates it. He may clarify.

domenick: I often endorsed proposals and sometimes offer my own. But this is a forum and proposals are open to criticism.

You apparently don't grasp that.

I will list four of my principles about dealing with the energy problem. Then an outline of how I would start. Then you may urinate on them.

1)Focused legislation. Any omnibus bill will be stuffed with crap and any worthwhile intent will be watered down so it won't work. And not by accident.

Cluttered and opaque legislation is the way politicans want to operate. It allows them to lie their way out of almost any consequence while insuring they get huge payoffs - legal and unlegal - from monied interests.

Get a scale. Weigh the bills. The worst ones are the heaviest.

2) I am not interested in the 'fairness' word or its pal 'equal'. Any financial effect will seem unfair to someone. Tax burdens are never fairly or perfectly spread for two reasons: special interests don't want it, and people can't agree about what is fair and perfect anyway.

Most will agree that others should pay any new taxes.

3) Focus on fixing ourselves, the US. All this talk of making China, India, et al. swallow our virtue medicine will make things worse. Foreigners have no intention of doing as we wish. Most governments have little intention of even doing what their own citizens wish.

Foreign nations must freely choose to reduce GHG and pollution or it won't get done.

4)It is hard to repeal bad agreements. So treaties should be short term and lapse if not renewed.

Nations get into messes with treaties for the same reason individuals get into messes. One reason: "it seemed like a good idea at the time."

Now to specific proposals. Begin with a flat tax on every barrel of oil from the ground or imported. Simple to collect, hard to evade.

Ignore wails about revenue neutrality or rebate schemes. I have explained why. Also ignore the screams of unfairness and demands that coal and NG taxes be bundled in the bill.

There are perhaps twenty grades of oil, tax them all the same, a barrel is a barrel. Or you will end up with the omnibus bill full of exceptions and favors.

Once that is passed look at the next problem, probably coal. Pass a similar tax.

Once that is passed look at refined products. Gasoline is the biggest. Diesel second? Place flat taxes there.

Immediately moans like this will be heard. "Oh, my God, this is double taxation. The oil is already taxed and now there will be a tax on gasoline extracted from oil".

See through the double taxation argument. It is BS. When you buy anything you pay multiple taxes, you just don't notice them. You are paying the real estate taxes on the store, income taxes on the workers who made the product, and taxes on the company that made the profit.

Many states put a sales tax on gasoline. There is already a flat tax on gasoline. So you pay sales tax on the flat tax. Pure double taxation.

You might also note that just because I haven't mentioned something doesn't mean I oppose it.