That's 2 kilos per 100.8 watt-hours, 50 watt-hours per kilo, and 44 lbs per kwh. That's pretty low energy density. It's 1/3 of a basic cobalt li-ion battery.

The charging speed sounds great, but a 16kwh battery pack for an ErEV like the Chevy Volt would weigh 700 lb's.

Definitely a chemistry for HEVs. I wonder if, with a good BMS, you could incorporate some of the cells into a PHEV or BEV battery to improve peak power capacity in the same way as we have been talking about combining batteries and ultracaps.

This is awesome good news especially the fact that they will start shipping them in March 2008. It would be interesting to hear what they cost. If the price is right they will mean the end of the NiMH for Hybrids. However, they should have many other interesting applications because of their extremely good durability and fast charge. They mention forklifts that can benefit from the fast charge time. Say goodbye to fuel cells in forklifts this is better and probably much cheaper.

Could this battery not be used instead of the standard lead acid battery in a car or a truck and then make a start stop function each time the vehicle is stopped? A lead acid battery should not be able to last long in such a setup but this battery can do it and it could save a lot of fuel and the price of the car should not increase by more than a few 100 dollars because a starter battery only need to be max 0.1kWh. This price premium will hold even if the battery cost $3000 per kWh which I think is the price they will be able to sell it for. I am not an engineer so maybe I miss something.

This battery should also be ideal for mobile material transporting robots in factories.

I would have installed a PV system in my off-grid cabin by now except for the backup lead-acid batteries.

This may do the job.

Progress... The Electrification of Ground Transport advances...

What will y'all worry about when we cease needing lots of petroleum, and simply cease dumping CO2 into the atmosphere?

The industry appears to be under the collective illusion that BEV owners require their vehicles to behave exactly as the ICE-based alternative, only better.

Consumers are perfectly capable and willing to accept technological limitations that require them to adopt or change certain habits, as long the overall benefits outweigh the niggles by a wide margin. In this particular context, that means hooking the PHEV up at night for a trickle charge off a dedicated but otherwise ordinary household circuit. For additional range on a given day, there is the ICE genset.

The only segment of the market that may really need fairly rapid recharge is commercial delivery fleets.

The batteries have more uses than just replacing gasoline; they will make great units for conventional hybrids.  With a charge rate of ~12C, a 3 kWh battery pack could absorb 36 kW or about 48 HP of braking power.  That's enough to bring a 3300 lb (1500 kg) car from 30 MPH to 0 in about 4 seconds.

Wintermane

You are not right that this battery is unsuited for forklifts. It can be charged in less than 5 minutes which means a forklift will only need enough battery to keep it running for two hours. It should be no problem to find 4 or 5 minutes once every 2 hours to charge the battery. 10kWh will therefore do fine. That is 200 kilo or 400 lb and assuming a high $3000 per kWh it is a $30.000 battery. It can do 5000 recharges minimum or about 10 times more than a deep cycle lead acid battery for forklifts. Furthermore, a forklift using lead acid cannot recharge in 5 minutes so you need 8 hours of runtime or about 4 times 10kWh. That is 40kWh of lead acid battery for a similar sized forklift or a bulky 1333 kilo/ 2666 lb battery assuming 30Wh/kg. The Toshiba battery may be $3000 per kWh but it lasts ten times longer than lead acid so a comparable price for lead acid would be 3000/10 = $300 kWh. However, you need four times more of it so the comparable price is 300/4 = $75 per kWh of deep cycle lead acid battery that normally costs twice as much as a regular lead acid battery. I don’t think you can buy it for that little anywhere and therefore the Toshiba battery is still cheaper than lead acid for forklifts. Plus you don’t need to use space for storing and charging of lead acid batteries buy infrastructure for replacing lead acid batteries. The forklift will be lighter and that can be used to increase the load on it.

I predict that by 2015 all new forklifts sold anywhere on the planet in all sizes will use a battery similar to or equal to Toshibas battery. Of cause they need to keep the price on or below $3000 kWh.

Wintermane

Just noticed an error in my argumentation above. I assume that the Toshiba battery is only 10kWh instead of 40kWh for lead acid because it unlike lead acid batteries can easily be recharged 4 times a day during normal work. My error is that this will also decrease the expected life time 4 times and then the comparable price for lead acid is back to $300 / kWh. That is high and will be difficult to compete with for Toshiba. However, I was just guessing about the $3000 price / kWh for the Toshiba battery. I am sure that Toshiba will be able to price their battery so that it is marginally cheaper with regard to total cost of ownership than the best lead acid solution can offer. To avoid the cumbersome handling and charging of lead acid batteries and the capital cost of keeping an extra set of lead acid batteries for charging when the forklift is working will save a lot of money. We will see.

You made a few other errotd.

1 The forklifts the fc company targeted use industrial lead acid batteries not deep cucle... the indistrial battery uses 4x the lead in its plates to up lifespan at the cost of weight.

2 The industrail batteries are supposedly cheap and very high capacity... they say 90 volt 700 amp hour.

4 The typical iser of the forklifys the fuel cell company targeted were using the batteries soo fast they had to have 3 for every forklift 2 always on the charge racks.

The main issues walmart carred about going to fuel cells was they could chop the forklift maintenance bay from 3000 sqiare feet to 220 AND have the forklifts run all day on a fillup.. of and the fuel cells being very tiny ones were also alot cheaper lasted a good long time and are light enough to not need special bulky equipment to replace when neede.


Oh and to make everything rvrn motr complrx trmrmbrt yjrtr atr not only several different catagories of forklift but that they dont all use lead acid,,, many it seems use nickel iron batteries... I expect 1 that toshiba is going after a different class of forklift then walmart uses and that roshiba doesnt actual plan on entering the forklift batteru market with this version of the battery but instead with a coist reduced more advanced version in 3 or more years.

For now tosjiba can likely make more money and sell every cell it makes selling to car makers alone.

BUT I expect the real targert is the medium and heavy truck market where the battery would capture the massive breaking loads much cheaper then an ultra cap battery combo does.// Tho that market seems to be going all hydralic.

Energy density is the clear issue here. As noted earlier, fast charge is / cannot be a requirement for first generation PHEV/BEVs. While there may be some consumer resistance to limited fast charge ability - it will not dampen enthusiasm for Volt type 40 mile electric range - extended by ICE genset.

Consumer electronics has already prepped the market for trickle charging as a standard practice - we plug in our cell phones, PDAs, MP3 players, cameras, etc, etc. everyday. The only seeming issue for slow charge battery packs will be to invest the consumer in reaching for the extension cord once they get home / work / parking garage.