Group Petitions for New US Vehicle Category: Medium Speed Electric Vehicles
09 May 2008
A group led by automobile dealership EnVironmental Motors in Glendale, California—which sells the ZENN Neighborhood Electric Vehicle (NEV)—is petitioning the Federal government to create a new vehicle classification for Medium Speed Electric Vehicles (MSEV).
Electric vehicles capable of going 40 to 45 miles per hour are currently available for sale, yet are limited by Federal low speed vehicle (LSV) regulations to 25 miles per hour. EV drivers in Montana and Washington have modified these zero-emission vehicles to travel at 35 miles per hour under new state laws that permit a faster speed. That speed is opening up the market in those states as people find the new speed works for local trips and their second car uses, according to EnVironmental Motors.
EnVironmental Motors, as part of a joint effort with The MSEV Coalition consisting of at least eleven electric vehicle manufacturers and numerous advocates, submitted letters of request to The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) for the rulemaking review.
Resources
MSEV proposal to CARB for demonstration program
I would commute to work at 45mph. It would increase my drive from 20 to 30 minutes each way, but I would do it.
For the environment, you understand, ... not that it wouldn't be way cheaper for me also ... *ahem*
Posted by: NCyder | 09 May 2008 at 06:25 AM
Yes, yes, yes!!! EV cars such as this will work in my Washington state...in cities where there are 35 to 40mph speed zones & backway rural roads that get from one town to another. My electric bicycle gets from one town to another on the back roads at 1/700th the pollution of an ICE car. An EV car could do the same, only quicker & still should have only 1/100th(or less?) the pollution of an ICE car.
EV Tesla cars are exciting, but I'm most excited about transporting with a dramatic drop in pollution! Of course, it will be cheaper too. My electric bike made no discernable increase in our electric bill.
Posted by: litesong | 09 May 2008 at 06:33 AM
Or you could just ride a bicycle to work.
With sufficient training and equipment, one can average 20mph on a conventional (UCI legal) bicycle, or +25mph on a semi-faired recumbent, or +50mph in a streamliner. (Current streamliner bicycle speed record is over 81mph!)
The environment would greatly benefit from people commuting in bicycles: no petro-pollution and fewer petro-wars, no HAZMAT batteries to dispose of...
Also lower operating costs through: simplified maintenance, no fuel costs, no vehicle insurance...
And let's not forget the obvious health benefits commuting by bicycle entails! We could save billions through enhanced fitness and make huge strides towards reducing affluent nations's obesity epidemics and all their ills: coronary heart disease, stroke, high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, etc, etc.
America, ride a bicycle- OPEC may hate you, but the planet and your body will love you for it.
Posted by: DieselHybrid | 09 May 2008 at 07:33 AM
I would welcome this regulation change. As for bicycling, I already commute part time on a electrically assisted bike but in Western NY the weather is not conducive to biking for more than half of the time because of snow and cold and rain. I have been hit by a car once, ruining my knee so I need the electrically assisted bike. BTW I have not saved on the economics of the electric bike. A replacement battery is $400 which I needed after about 500 cycles Add in replacement tires and bike tune ups and the bike has been quite costly for commuting but the exercise and the intangibles of bike commuting are priceless. For full time commuting a bike is not practical for a large area of the country. However I would purchase a MSEV if it were legal to drive on roads up to 45MPH posted speed limits. This would open up a large market for reasonably priced BEV's. I would trade in my 2001 Prius.
Posted by: dsmall24 | 09 May 2008 at 07:55 AM
DieselHybrid...Pedaled 20,000 around my tri-valley region as a kid. In my prime, 18MPH was my all out average speed over 50 miles & I was dead tired. You're joking if you think all people will bike 40 miles roundtrip(next to cars which might kill you) & work an 8 hour shift, every day for 40 years of their working life. My bad back, arthritis & 58 year old body says no to that! I get enough pedaling with the electric bike as it is. Besides, the EB puts out almost as little pollution as a human powered bike.
Posted by: litesong | 09 May 2008 at 08:02 AM
There is a place for EVs that can do 50 mph. A lot of urban and suburban areas could use these. That is a good idea for ZipCars. If you can just stripe your card and hop in, you could do your errands and go home.
If people had ZipCar lots close to home, they could bike down there, lock up the bike and use the Zip to get where ever they need to go. The car sharing and EV ideas go together well. Mass transit is good for some things, but we need solutions where that is not the best way.
Posted by: SJC | 09 May 2008 at 08:48 AM
litesong,
I have been blessed with health and the ability to ride to work for almost 14 years now. (I've always lived within 12 miles of work ~24 miles daily round trip). Yes, weather can be a challenge in its due season. I also have a car that I drive only when I absolutely have to.
As far as transportation efficiency: nothing can touch a bicycle. Mile for mile, cycling is 5 times more efficient than walking/jogging. Conversely, this means you would need to ride 5 times your normal jogging distance to get an equal work-out.
According to my PowerTap meter, my power requirement to sustain a steady 20mph in calm winds and a relatively flat surface is roughly 230 watts. Sufficient training (i.e. riding to work on a regular basis) would make this power output attainable for many.
Dieting? Thankfully, not for me! If folks rode to work once in a while there would be a much smaller market for Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, et al.
Not to mention less headaches and stress!
I often chuckle as I pass the long lines of cars heading into base.
As far as time:
Traffic congestion has allowed me (on occassion) to beat folks to work on similar 12 mile commutes.
Yes, I've had my share of close calls- mostly from distracted drivers who are either yapping on their cell phones, sipping lattes, or (God forbid) text-messaging!
Dedicated bicycle lanes, laws targeting the above drivers, and tax credits (seriously Congress- where is my alternative vehicle/fuel tax break!?!) would encourage more folks to abandon their cars in favor of bicycles.
Posted by: DieselHybrid | 09 May 2008 at 08:49 AM
I could see this leading to a day where E-Cars would be like appliances and would be purchased in a sale of a house. You figure the house would be somewhat customized to accomdate the car. You could lure potential buyers who are moving to work in the area with a low cost way to commute or take the kids to school/local shop etc
Posted by: Lotfw | 09 May 2008 at 09:04 AM
DieselHybrid...This article is on EVs, not bikes. Your theoretical mathematics don't match real life at all. What if you get a headwind both ways from work? What if your bike isn't as efficient as $500 street bikes (those mountain bikes are impossibly heavy). What if you have 300 foot hills? What if the 'paved' sides of the road are rough & jarring? Brake for the pothole...brake for obstacles...brake for curbs...& peds...brake for the car that is cutting you off near an intersection...watch the slippery gravel...oh,oh, my tire went flat with all the glass. Your 230 watts isn't true. Organizations have been trying to get people in shape for decades & people are getting worse. Your dream of whipping people in shape is a DREAM. 'What ifs' don't count.
Trying to get even 60% of people out of 2 ton polluting ICE & into 1(+-)ton economy cars is a tough enough sell. Getting them to take huff & puff bicycles is a real dream. I bicycled a few times for my work...& never could do it now.
Posted by: litesong | 09 May 2008 at 09:45 AM
litesong...probably more like a $1500-2000 bicycle. $500 buys you an okay entry level mountain bike ...maybe the lowest end road bike.
I tried commuting on a road bike for about 3 weeks - the most painful 3 weeks of my life (and at the time I typically was running 15 to 25 miles per week and quite healthy). Luckily, the bike shop was very generous and let me trade to a mountain bike (which while heavier and slower was 500X more comfortable for the 9 miles I was not sitting on a bus or the sounder).
After a couple years I could average 16mph on a 20 mile trip with my mountain bike (flat, smooth paved bike trails [interurban trail for those in the puget sound area]). I probably could have managed 20mph on a road bike on the interurban trail...but it would have been a literal PITA!
Posted by: Patrick | 09 May 2008 at 10:12 AM
Only thing I have to say is...if they up the legal speed, they need to insure some measure of safety as well (low speed crash tests).
Posted by: Patrick | 09 May 2008 at 10:14 AM
MSEVs would be perfect for the city. Yes, they certainly would need appropriate safety testing. The key is to have a 50 or 60kph limit with reasonable acceleration.
DH: yes, bicycles are great (I use mine every day), but they're no substitute for a powered vehicle with some cargo space (weather, monster hills, groceries, transporting kids and elderly relatives not to mention getting to work without requiring a shower)
Posted by: Neil | 09 May 2008 at 10:32 AM
So riding my bicycle to work means I've been living the dream all these years! Whoo-hoo! Life is good. :)
230 watts is the average PowerTap reading during my 24-mile, 20mph commute (during calm winds). PowerTap is the same system used by numerous pro riders - as it is very accurate.
Besides, the more hills and more wind you encounter on your ride, the more double-fudge icecream sundaes you can consume! It's a win-win situation. Whoo-hoo! :)
Clearly, not everyone is able to ride due to health reasons. That is why I'm all for PHEVs, EV's, smaller cars, and energy efficiency in general.
I earnestly hope EnVironmental Motors' MSEV petition gets approved. Any alternative to the polluting, gas-guzzling, terrorist-enabling, over-stuffed vehicles littering our roadways is a good thing- IMHO.
Heck- Hugo Chavez just sneezed and sent oil over $126 today! Given the choice, why bother with oil at all?
If "one EV = one less SUV," then I'm all for it!
(has a nice ring to it- doesn't it?)
Yet perhaps, we can pursuade able-bodied folks out there to give the "one bike = one less car" equation a try as well.
Whatever your choice: please share the road with us cyclists! :)
Posted by: DieselHybrid | 09 May 2008 at 10:47 AM
3/4th U.S. is in bad shape. Bike = heart attack.
Now, Electric cars are good. If you have $100,000 dollars (average price) to pay for one. no? well a hybrid might be the answer then at about $30-50,000 dollars then. no? Still more then your budget will allow?
A new E-85 Car perhaps? Sure, at about $25-35,000 dollars then. Not yet huh? Oh, I see, the auto industries forgot to mention that all these wonderfull new alternate cars are priced for the ultra wealthy only. The average person working at Mcdonalds makeing about $25-30,000 dollars per year during a slump in employment, during a recession can not afford to buy one or even get a reasonable loan with the credit crunch going on right now. People are haveing a hard time just making their house payments and haveing to walk away from a lot of those. Tesla, Phoenix, Aptera, G.M. and all the rest of the auto industries are makeing these E-cars and hybrids, but their not priceing them for the average ameerican to buy or afford them. At that time, I would have to wonder, Why do they even bother with advertising them if they are going to cater to the super ultra wealth only.
I have a v6 Mini van in my drive way. I have not even started up the motor in 6-8 months. You know what I did. I got a job closer to home. With in walking range. Now I don't worry about gas. My house is all electric, so I do not even need gas for any of that neather.
Soon I will be installing solar panels and a small wind mill in the back yard so I wont even have an electric bill eather. This is nice.
If I ever do need to go very far, the shuttle bus will do just fine.
Have a happy day everyone.
Posted by: Ross | 09 May 2008 at 11:09 AM
I might be a bit off topic here, but one of the interesting things to come out of the GM Volt project was the realization that in an EV, with really good regenerative breaks, weight is not nearly as important as aerodynamics. Oddly enough that means that with the electrification of LDVs we may not see much of a reduction in the number of SUVs produced (big change in shape though). I'm sure that thought will consternate some to joy of others.
Posted by: Neil | 09 May 2008 at 11:28 AM
I saw a story title that said GM may lose money on their dual mode hybrid Tahoe SUVs. I do not know how you can lose money on a vehicle that you charge more than $50,000 for, but apparently they have found a way.
Posted by: SJC | 09 May 2008 at 01:29 PM
3/4th U.S. is in bad shape. Bike = heart attack - 10 years later than otherwise.
Bikes work very well for some people (myself included).
But are not for all.
The medium speed EV is a very good idea for (sub)urban use. If you could go 45mph you could do a lot, with a much lighter car. If it is lighter, it will need less power, which is an issue for EVs.
So creating a MEV category would be a very good idea.
You could scale speed, weight, power, and costs.
They could be ideal second or third cars.
You use the SUV once or twice a year and the MEV most of the time.
Better still, you have a pool of SUVs so 20 people could have access to say 4 SUVs (or larger cars in general) and use MEVs for most journeys.
If you work out the taxation and insurance issues, you could make this work.
Posted by: mahonj | 09 May 2008 at 03:37 PM
A new category may be a step, assuming these vehicles never have to travel on high speed roads. The few EVs around now e.g. Zenn have major issues with safety. Which now becomes an environmental issue that cannot be ducked. If we ask drivers to climb into small, light EVs, they will have to be guaranteed some element of safety. The Zenn vehicle has been refused a license from the country it's built in for these reasons.
And the safety issue applies to the bike idea. Yes, it is healthy and efficient - but in North America it is a car culture. Roads and driving habits are car-centric to the exclusion of other road users. So, providing some margin of safety for bicyclist and pedestrians MUST become a part of the enviro/green issue. Every commuter who tries a bike and is terrified by indifferent drivers - is lost to the cause. Big money spent to change lifestyle is WASTED, if safety of bikers, pedestrians mass transit and low speed vehicles is not part of the program.
Bottom line is do not ask people to walk or bike or drive mini-consumptive vehicles until you can guarantee a greatly increased margin of safety. At the moment - it does not exist. Sustainability applies to personal safety as well as to the environment.
Posted by: gr | 10 May 2008 at 07:14 AM
VW had a pretty good idea during the third reich. A small inexpensive, lightweight, fuel efficient car that carried people to work and back. It didn't cost much to make because they never changed the body panel designs. Repairs were cheap and could be accomplished by any one with a wrench. Parts were always available because the modular design allowed the owner to upgrade the vehicle as improvements were introduced. It wasn't about power, status, or speed. It was about a practical solution to a common problem. And damn if it wasn't succesful for almost 50 years! Maybe history needs to repeat itself with a an electric people's car (ie, folk's wagon.) It wouldn't be my only car, but it would be a great work car.
Posted by: David | 12 May 2008 at 12:46 PM
If you really want to help, please sign the petition we are sending to NHTSA. To back up the proposal we sent in, we are collecting signatures and comments from the public to show them we aren't the only ones who want an MSEV classification. SIGN PETITION HERE: (copy and paste) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/create-a-new-electric-vehicle-classification
Thank you!
Posted by: EnVironmental Motors | 03 June 2008 at 02:33 PM
Hi EM...Signed your petition! Thankyou. Litesong
Posted by: litesong | 13 June 2008 at 11:54 AM