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eTec and V2Green to Evaluate PHEV Fast-Charging and Smart Grid Interactions; V2Green and Coulomb Also Partner

Electric Transportation Engineering Corporation (eTec), a wholly owned subsidiary of ECOtality, Inc., has launched a Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs) Grid Interaction Project to demonstrate and evaluate a bi-directional fast-charge system capable of both fast-charging a PHEV in 10 minutes and supplying the stored energy of a PHEV back to a smart grid.

Funded by the US Department of Energy through Idaho National Laboratory (INL) and supported by project partner V2Green, the project will pair the eTec Minit-Charger Level 3 fast-charge system with V2Green’s smart grid technology.

The bi-directional Level 3 charging system is capable of charging at rates up to 33 kW or 400 amps, but will be optimized for output rates sufficient to recharge the PHEV battery packs from the state-of-charge (SOC) threshold for charge-sustaining mode to 80% SOC in ten minutes.

eTec says that it will probably be charging in the 24 kW range with a maximum output of 100 amps. Vehicles currently participating in the project include an EnergyCS Prius equipped with a Valance lithium-ion battery pack, and a HyMotion Prius equipped with an A123 lithium-ion battery pack.

The project will also evaluate the impact of bi-directional fast-charging on PHEV battery life and performance. PHEVs involved in the project will be subject to strenuous charge-discharge cycles as each vehicle will be operated for a total of 5,440 miles.

This project combines leading fast-charge and smart grid technologies to quantify the public value and benefit of intelligently controlled, bi-directional fast-charging. In addition to reducing consumer energy costs by allowing more efficient energy consumption, fast, smart charging capabilities can reduce our oil dependence and allow us to diversify our energy portfolio with more renewable and sustainable energy sources.

—John Clark, president and CEO, V2Green

At the Plug-in 2008 conference and exhibition in San Jose, V2Green staged a live demo of its smart grid technology controlling the bi-directional flow of electricity between the grid and a small fleet of plug-in vehicles, two of which were on the show floor: an AC Propulsion eBox electric car and an A123 Systems/Hymotion converted Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid electric vehicle.

In addition to the eBox and Prius, V2Green demonstrated smart charging—managing the one-way flow of electricity from the grid to the vehicles—with simulated clients.

V2Green and Coulomb Technologies (earlier post) also announced a technology and marketing partnership to create an intelligent charging infrastructure for plug-in vehicles. Coulomb’s Smartlet Charging Stations and Communications Network provide convenient, easy-to-use charging stations, delivering bi-directional energy metering and user authentication.

The Coulomb-V2Green partnership will involve development of an open Application Programming Interface (API), interoperability testing and joint marketing.

Coulomb will initially support Level 1 charging (110V and 15A), with the subsequent addition of Level 2 (220V, 15A). Fast-charging Level 3 (480V) is projected for the future, according to Mike Harrigan, Coulomb’s VP of Business Development (formerly with Tesla Motors).




With regard to pure EVs fast charge will make them much more useful, of cause. Another ability that would make EVs more useful will be the ability of one EV to fast charge another EV. People keep running out of gas on the highway and people will also run out of electricity on the highway. To be able to get a few kWh from another EV will off cause be a great advantage because it will save you the time and money to call an emergency truck to come and drive your EV to the nearest fast charge station. Of cause, PHEVs will not need the ability to fast charge another PHEV but adding this ability should not cost much (if any extra when this W2G is included) and it could be used to help another EV.


This is what I like about this site, one original comment and ts like putting on new glasses, thanks Henrick.
Even the article got it right!


Has everyone lost their mind??? Cycle life is a major problem with most reasonably priced batteries out there today. Is everyone assuming a major breakthrough here to fix that problem? We're building production electric cars and have tested and used EVERY battery we can get our hands on. Forget everyone's hype and marketing materials...folks unless you want to buy a new battery for your car very fast, you don't want to be charging/discharging it extra times to save a little money on your electric bill.
I hope that some miracle breakthrough does occur and that we're all planning for the future. If you really want to do something constructive for the real world, today, put your money, time and efforts into making the batteries last longer.

y Ev

Henrik! This is called Ev2V
"Another ability that would make EVs more useful will be the ability of one EV to fast charge another EV." and many otherpractical Ev names can be found at


Sorry, forgot to last "rant" was about vehicle to grid technology LOL

tom deplume

Fast charging runs up against a law of physics called I2R. Losses are proportional to the square of the current multiplied by the resistance. A 400 amp charge rate generates 700 times the heat of a more reasonable household current of 15 amps. An awful lot of energy is thrown away via quick charge systems which will require some impressive cooling systems to keep from melting.


DaveD: Most proponents of V2G I've talked to (particularly Andy Frank) are only proposing that 3% of the battery capacity or less be used for V2G to avoid any wear and tear on the battery.

John Taylor

The idea of getting an Electric Car is quite a thrill to me. I hope one will be available at a price I can afford, and the sooner the better. Obviously I want a recharge system available that is standard for all cars and capable of handling a 40kWh battery recharge in an hour or less.

One of the most expensive parts of such a vehicle is the battery. So far, all high density batteries are high cost and have limited life (sufficiently long to be useful, but still limited).

The idea of using MY transport battery to modulate the grid is not going to fly. Sorry, I need MY car when I need it, not when the grid feels like making it available. I have ZERO interest in being a part of V2G technology or of using an expensive transport battery frivolously. I suspect most drivers will feel similarly when making the real choice. The idea is fine for others, but not for me. (NIMBY)

However, the Battery 2 Grid idea is not necessarily dead. Many homes (including mine) have installed or will install home generating systems with battery storage. Home generated power storage batteries would be PERFECT for modulating grid power, they will be cheap heavy old tech batteries that no one will worry about replacing when necessary. If a system for selling power when needed is made available most any homeowner will jump at the opportunity.

The idea is H2G (Home to Grid) ... I install solar panels, or wind machine and a battery bank, *(recommend 5 kW generating capacity as a normal home benchmark) then H2G systems connect and monitor how much extra power I produce and decide when to sell it to the grid. This interface needs to be “plug in capable” so home power can easily get plugged into it, as can a battery pack and power generator, and phone/cabal line for intelligent control. This H2G system should be cheaper than the silly V2G requirements, and far more useful. The system would have the added advantage of making home generating systems more affordable and more attractive, and reduce grid loading ... Win Win Win.

Meanwhile, If I decide to go out at 3 pm one afternoon, my car is still ready to go the distance.

Please reconsider V2G and consider H2G as a “better idea” grid modulating feature.

Thank you

ps... if anyone is interested in helping develop such a system as H2G, please contact me.



Have you seen nanosafe/A123 Battery specs? They can do of thousands of rapids full dis/charge cycles with little appreciable degeneration, this equates over a decade of warrantable usage even as a V2G.


V2G, I thought, referred to the ability to use the large amount of unused generating capacity (not electricity stored in batteries) in PHEVs when they are not in use...which is 96% of the time. For example a 15 KW fuel cell or generator multiplied by 2 million vehicles for 2000 hours per year would be enough generating capacity to offset about one third of the electrical demand for the US. So fewer than 2% of the existing vehicles used less than one forth of the time to put electricity back into the grid would avoid the "need" for another 200 coal plants at 500 MW each.



Perhaps, but then where are they getting their hydrogen from? V2G is generally for any vehicles that can take and dump power back into the grid, smart grid is generally describing the ability of a car to charge or do V2G by the grid deciding when it's best.


I'm sure each home charging station will give you the option of participating or not in V2G, Al Gore was never elected president, we still are free.. for now.

A 3% discharge is shallow and unlikely to harm the battery in any case.. it all depends on how much money you save..perhaps enough to pay for all the electricity your car uses.

Regarding all this talk about charging standards.. what is wrong with the standard 3 prong 110v and 220v plugs?

stas peterson

V2G is an nice idea as long as the control for the V2G choice remains with the owner of the EV.

It would not take too much with an "intelligent interface" for the State regulators to ration the amount of electricity that anyone can consume. Rationing is already being openly proposed by the eco-wackos.

Cap-and-trade when you analyze it is nothing more than a rationing scheme, already. With a license for the privileged (ie them!) to print licenses, naturally.

The demagogues who prevent the California utilities from building generating capacity, are creating a disaster. They have made the State an energy vassal to Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Oregon, Washington and Mexico. They would be joyous if they could decide that no one of the plebeians needs more than "x" KWH per month.

Except of course for themselves. Look at the Learjet and Limousine libs, telling all of us to conserve, sacrifice and downsize our lifestyles. Even while they burn all the Energy they want. Their hypocrisy is well documented, and blatant, but criticism is haughtily ignored.

These people are predisposed to lord it over everyone, have already declared their intentions to force us to conserve; and demonstrated their stupidity.

I could see them demanding all V2G be used to overcome their stupidity in not building enough generation and enlisting the involuntary cooperation. When one of the western States cuts off California, plunging the State into blackouts, something inevitable, and which could come any day.

No thank you, except with ironclad protections.


To understand the value of V2G in offsetting the high cost of leasing or buying a large battery pack, read the original white paper on the AC Propulsion site
"Vehicle-to-Grid Demonstration Project: Grid Regulation Ancillary Service with a Battery Electric Vehicle"

This and other resources can be downloaded from:

Some brief quotes to pique you interest:
"a particular grid ancillary service called regulation has the best prospects for generating a real income stream from services that could be provided by battery electric vehicles.
The annualized gross value created with 80-Amp grid connections available at home and at work ranged from a low of $3,038 for December 2001 to a high of $5,038 for July 2002.
Integrating electric drive vehicles with the electric power grid has been shown to be feasible and to have potential to create an income stream that offsets a portion of vehicle ownership costs."

AC propulsion highlighted that current batteries have a limited calendar life as well as a limited number of deep discharges.

Grid regulation does not use deep discharges, so
a.) your BEV is always ready to drive.
b.) you can generate significant revenue to offset the cost of leasing your battery during it's limited calendar life.

Barry J. Hanson

My point is that there is a huge amount of excess generating capacity with several million PHEVs. There is virtually no excess, available stored addition to it being hard on the battery to discharge it for anything but traveling in electric mode.

PHEVs would use grid delivered bio-methane in high temperature fuel cells, no hydrogen. The PHEV owner could also sell heat back to the office building where it's connected.

Oil Man

Duh what is a Grid Regulation Ancillary Service? Does that mean some bureaucrats are gonna drain my SUV battery dry and then I won't be able to drive nowhere and I'll starve to death? And I can't imagine some fancy pants electrical grid where all those cars and generators are smart enough to talk to each other over wires and such. Who ever heard of such a thing? What if they decide they don't want to be ruled by humans anymore?

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