WOW! I have owned three Camry's and have loved each one, just can't beat the quality, etc...I would almost instantly buy a CNG Camry and a home filling system and say goodbye to OPEC FOREVER!!!! :)

a.b:

We had 6 vehicles modified for CNG (with generous Fed Govr. subsidy) in the Montreal area in the post-1974 oil crisis.

Everything worked OK till temperatures fell below -20C. All those vehicles refused to start. The modification kits had to be removed. We never tried it again.

Be sure of good cold weather performance below going to CNG.

Good bye OPEC, hello ENRON. The names change but the scam artists remain. Now, it the Pickens scam.

Really people, you would think at least some of you would learn. If you are a victim of scam maybe it makes you feel better to blame ENRON, fine but if you do not learn anything you will be a just be victim again.

Where is the energy coming from and how is does it get to where you need it? If you happen to live in Iran or some other place with a glut of natural gas and poor air quality, go for it.

If you live in LA or Portland and think it is a good idea, let me suggest that you not smart enough to fuel a POV with natural gas. It is a scam.

@Jay & Bud

Natural gas is mixture of methane and heavier hydrocarbons like propane at 1000 BTU/1000 cubic feet. It is processed to remove impurities such as CO2 and H2S.

Biogas and producer gas (syngas) has a much lower BTU content thanks to all the nasties in it that will destroy an ICE in short order.

Biomass is also a finite resource but mostly it limited by those who are smart enough to make it work. Let me explain the magnitude. If all the dairy manure (the easiest biomass waste stream) in the US was converted to biogas it could replace one nuke. We would need 100 nukes (give or take) to produce the energy to replace fossil fuels for transportation.

Am a big advocate of biomass renewable energy but we need to train a new army workers who would rather shovel manure than play video games.

CNG cars is about employing drilling rig workers and building more pipelines. Same problem with finding workers but it is more likely we can drill our way out faster than grow our way out.

In any case, I am skeptical natural gas supply can be developed fast enough to keep up with existing demand.

Kit P

My comment above was regarding bio-methane (not bio gas, natural gas, producer gas etc), thank you for the irrelevant lecture.

Bio-methane has 1000 BTUs per cubic foot, the same as NG. Bio-methane is now produced in large quantities from biomass, i.e. energy crops such as hybrid sorghum, leucaena, miscanthus, moringa, arundo donax, corn stover, rice hull waste, MSW, sewage sludge for example.If all personal trans vehicles in the US were PHEVs equipped for CNG you could supply the country using cattails, duckweed and water hyacinth grown on constructed and remediated wetlands.There is potentially plenty of feedstock , enough to run a renewable energy economy about four times over without using cropland.

Upgrading and cleaning biogas to methane is expensive but included in the $8 number above. Biogas can (and is) being produced for between $2 and $5 per million BTUs.

"GM was also again exploring offering a natural gas vehicle solution in the US, initially in the form of a dual-fuel combustion engine approach..."

GM has the right idea with dual fuel. Both Ford and GM make dual fuel cars sold in other countries and could sell them here. Honda has the Civic GX CNG only car that has limited range and it sounds like the Camry and RAV4 are CNG only as well.

I have to drive 20 miles to get to a CNG filling station here in Southern California and California has almost 200 of the 1000 CNG filling stations in the nation. That would make the Phill a nice accessory, but the price is $4200 before any rebates.

So, a dual fuel would be my choice. I can commute to and from work on CNG and do local trips on CNG. If I decide to go out of town on longer trips, I can run on gasoline with filling stations just about everywhere. The best of both worlds.

It's about time more people woke up and demanded CNG vehicles from the automakers, NOT them instead telling us what we need to buy that burns gasoline.
I have owned two CNG cars for past two years, fuel at home, and am not adding worse pollution to the atmosphere. Not to mention in Oregon it costs me less than $1.60 per gallon equivalent, and the tax credits available for purchasing a CNG vehicle or home fueling unit.
Go for it Toyota...

Wow Bud, that is fantastic. Do have a link?

Before passing along information provided by Bud that the planet has been saved let me check the meaning of some of the words Bud uses to make sure we are communicating.

“bio-methane is not a finite commodity”

Does that mean bio-methane is infinite? Or does he agree with me that the engineering to convert biomass makes it a small finite resource.

“now produced in large quantities from biomass”

Does large mean greater than 1% of the natural gas in US pipelines?

Does large mean large mean significant compare to the amount of biomass used to make electricity or liquid biofuels?

At the risk of lecturing Bud, if you have biomass you want to convert it into the most valuable product. Liquid transportation fuel first, then ammonia, then electricity with natural gas having the lowest commodity value.

Peak NG???? What a bunch of STUPID NONSENSE!!!
I live in Central PA (Yes the land that Obama HATES!!!)
Anyway, we are sitting on top of TRILLIONS of dollars of worth of NG known as the Marcellus shale. I have a friend who just signed a lease at $40,000/acre and a 16% royalty agreement. Hmmmmm....can't imagine what all you hot shot city folk are going to say and do when all of the po-white-trash of Central PA become filthy rich. Appalachia will become the new OPEC of the 21st century! Your heard it here first!

Kit P
The gist of my response was that we have four times more than we need. It can be produced for under $10 per million BTUs, it's a great source of end use energy. What more do you need to know?

Bio-methane is not a "finite resource", I was responsing to Joseph's comment. It is a function of how much biomass one can acquire, which of course is not infinite, but certainly a function that is dependent on an infinite resource: the sun.

It might be risky lecturing me, Kit: best pathways from biomass to end use energy in terms of production cost would be first solid, then gas then liquid. Torrified biomass (which equals coal's properties) and pellets are the least cost. Liquid is the most expensive and problematic for obvious reasons.

Methane is just a very good fuel, its production is straightforward and relatively inexpensive.

Sorry to keep repeating myself Bud, but methane is not a good transportation fuel. Second biomass is a finite resource. Third, biomass is a difficult fuel to convert to a transportation fuel.

How do I know this? Well Bud because nobody has demonstrated that I am wrong. Link please Bud?

Biomass is the largest source of renewable energy and has historically been used as a transportation fuel. However, it the dirties most dangerous fuel choice. It takes a great deal of expensive process equipment to convert it to a useful form. There are many good reasons to over come the problems but it is not a great source.

Bud has never had to comply OSHA and EPA regulations while converting energy to a useful form.

Second biomass is a finite resource.

How do I know this? Well Bud because nobody has demonstrated that I am wrong.

You're Doing It Wrong