Minneapolis averages 50% sunshine annually during daylight hours. Making the return on investment longer still. But it is a good idea that may be supplemented by a dedicated RPU in the near future.

Because it is a start.
Before you get a rich full lawn of grass you start with seeds!

@anon

I do not want to sound like sour grapes but I helped write some grant proposals. Grant results are usually published. Environmental justice is always a winner.

Floatplane, using PV to power BEVs seems like a very attractive solution to me. Could you show us an example of your "homework"? Please give us some numbers. My commute is about 15 miles round trip. If a fairly efficient BEV needs only a couple hundred watt hours to go one mile, sounds to me as if a small, 2 kW system would provide for a substantial part of my commute (producing excess energy on sunny summer days but probably falling short during the winter). By the way, are you including estimates of the expense of the gulf wars and other external costs into your numbers for gasoline? Or are you only figuring the price at the pump?

@Kit

Bradford is right on the money. It all depends on how far one needs to go and the kWhr/mile the vehicle requires. Google "Solar Decathlon" to see dozens of universities that send teams to the Washington Mall to compete to see how well they can power a house and car off of the energy they collect on the roof of their project house.

The two seater Aptera, at 80 watt-hours/mi, would require only 2.4 kWh of energy to make a 30 mile round trip. In the dead of winter, a 1 kW solar array will make almost all of that in Minneapolis (2.2 sun-hrs x 1 kW). Shorter commute? Less energy would be needed.

"My house and commute use very little energy."

How much exactly, for each annually?

"So Bradford if you are really worry about gulf wars, dress in sack cloth, move to a small apartment and walk to work."

I heat my energy-efficient house with passive solar and use PV to power it (net-metered w/battery backup). Sure, there was an expense to buy and install it, but I simply chose to keep the house modest in size and style. I telecommute 1/2 the time and carpool the other days with my Honda Insight.

Your snide attitude belittles your positions, so don't expect others to give your rants any weight.

Sure, there was an expense to buy and install it”

So Will what was the expense, what is the rating of your panels, and how much electricity do they actually produce? How much is two seater Aptera?

“Shorter commute? Less energy would be needed.”

Well yes, and you would not need the expense of PV and silly little cars.

And Will S, just how many Minnesota winters have you “I heat my energy-efficient house with passive solar'?

I'm assuming you are figuring out the answer the question I asked above, so in the meantime I'll answer some of yours;

Expense: Less than $15k, but it was part of a special buydown package between DoE, the State, the manufacturer, etc.

Rating: 2kW array

How much do they produce? Today, near Wash DC they produced 9.8kWh.

How much is a two-seater Aptera? According to their site, the electric version will cost approximately $27k

At 80 watt-hr/mile, that's approximately 12.5 miles/kWhr. A kWhr costs around $0.08 here, so a 30 mile round trip commute would cost around $0.20.

15000 miles per year would cost $96 for that year, or $960 for 10 years.

A car achieving 40 mpg with gas at $4.00/gal (thinking 10 years ahead should place it higher but let's start with this) for 15000 mile/yr would cost $1500, and over 10 years would cost $15,000.

Now, your answers.

Kit said;

> What Will S said adding up his numbers is the cost $43K.

We need to compare apples to apples here, especially if this is to be extensible across a wider population set. If we are talking about the cost of transportation needs similar to yours, then we would need to run the numbers;

> A good environmental choice is not driving very much.

I certainly agree with this.
15 mile round trip for Aptera in DC area would require;

15mi * 80 watt-hr/mile = 1.2 kWh

Based on my 2kW array making 9.8kWh yesterday, a 250 watt array is needed, let's spec out two Kyocera 135 watt panels to give us a little engineering margin. $1340

An inverter to handle 300 watts - $30

Wires, fuses, balance of system - ~$200

So the charging system for the car is only around $1600. Of course, this setup will last more than 30 years, so let's adjust the cost to apportion 10 years of use (yes, there's amortization, inflation, etc, but let's keep it simple) - $550 cost of vehicle solar power system for 10 years.

The electric Aptera is $27,000

Add the solar power: $27,550

A ten year economic examination of the subject means that your POS PU will need to be replaced at some point, let's assume a Ford Fusion 2.4L that gets 33 mpg.

15mi x 5 x 52 x 10 = 39,000 miles over 10 years (no doubt much more driving will be involved but let's use this number for now).

39000/33= 1182 gallons

1182 * $4/gal = $4727 (gas for 10 years of driving 15 mile round trip commute)

New Ford Fusion MSRP $19,035 - $25,605: (Set at midpoint as you don't seem like the kind of guy who drives a stripped car) $22,300

$22,300 + 4727 = $$27,027

----------------

Let's review:

Aptera with solar power: $27,550
Ford Fusion, gas powered: $27,027

Conclusion: Based on this cursory analysis, reducing our energy dependence on foreign oil is very simple, cost effective, and straightforward with solar power.

Kit,

If we are looking at this from a perspective of a national approach, then we can't go around expecting everyone will buy used cars; otherwise, the Big 3 will be gone overnight. Of course Corollas have

> Will S will never buy Aptera unless 'he is a self indulgent wiener' (quote from gone in 60 second).

Come now, let's have reasoned discourse. Show us the best of your engineering talent. Self indulgence has to do with those craving power, luxury, and image. I drive a old Honda Insight when I'm not biking or telecommuting. I also have a POS PU that is 20 years old, though it is relegated to farm chores and used about 500 miles/year. I may not buy an Aptera, it could be some other vehicle such as a VW 1 liter, Loremo, etc.

Kit wrote:

>My family uses about 12 MWh of electricity a year

Our house uses about 1/5 of that, so solar works well for us (passive thermal and PV).

> Putting solar panels up to charge BEV is just a gimmick

I ran the numbers above that showed that's not true. And transportation uses 66% of the petroleum consumed in this country. So based on all the above, we'll agree to disagree.