As Brits would say, "Smashing!" Although their search for expertise in algal engineering will yield few - it is a great shining opportunity for wide cross-section of engineers. More interesting is the sustainable liquid fuels battle that is shaping up. One of mankind's most formidable challenges to date, the competition between biofuels and new, on-demand H2 "fuel cells" is getting red hot. Excellent.

The growth in energy technology over the next two decades will be remembered as the Golden Age of terrestrial knowledge. It's the hottest ticket in the universe. Great fun!

I have been saying for years that Algae is the way to go.

The Salton Sea could meet all of California's needs in less than five years.

Thousands of people have already died as a result of food-based fuel production. When it gets to millions, it can't be ignored anymore.

In the long run, electric and hydrogen may meet some of our transportation needs -- but for now -- we need to start developing an infrastructure that will meet our immediate needs.

We really don't have a choice.

Britain tried biofuels 200 years ago.

There is not enough land even with crop wastes to grow biofuels enough to displace much fossil use. Crop wastes make fertilizer for subsequent crops. ..HG..

Simple question: Per acre of land used for production per year how much bio fuel is produced? What is the energy cost of growing and making the fuel? Should take about 1 paragraph to answer.

You can compare that energy production to using the same land for solar cells.

But, I know the answer already. The net solar cell production of energy will be 2 to 4 orders of magnitude higher than the net biofuel energy production.

Splane me again why using farmland and crops as solar collectors to make energy is the right idea?

Oh, wait I know -- farm subsidies! Silly me I forgot that! My bad.

"Oh, wait I know -- farm subsidies! Silly me I forgot that! My bad."

You are exactly correct - your "bad."

Research such as that done by the University of New Hampshire show that desert (non-farmable) land can be used to grow algae for biodiesel. A small fraction of our entire waste land can be used to create enough biodiesel to fuel the entire U.S. Vehicles would, of course, need to switch over to diesel engines, as they have been doing in Europe for years.

Solar cells are incredibly inefficient and expensive to manufacture. They don't work very well (OK - not at all) for much of the day - tip when the sun is down, it is raining, etc.) They also have a limited lifespan. Absolutely the wrong way to go.

No commercialisation before 2020, what a joke. It take less then 6 months to commercialize a simple thing like fuel from algae. IT's already a known technick. They say that to impede privateer from entering this market and they are protecting petrol. They are madscientists paid by u.k goverment and they protect their un-productive jobs up yo year 2020.

Algae biofuel suitable for air transport. BEV's and PHEV's the only viable solution for light road transport. CNG only viable solution for heavy long range vehicles. When I hear word "hydrogen" I know who is behind - OPEC. Fake solution. Everybody shall know that this is the same oil transformed in very expensive way and with huge losses into hydrogen. Fortunately this stupidity will never come true.

I was going to chip in to Marcel but Darius beat me to it. A lot has happened in 200years and Algae has the potential to supply our energy needs within our available land. The only crop to do so. Partly this is due to the doubling time of aglgea meaning you can take half of it away and have that half replaced in a fixed time period from the remaining half. For fast production you only aim to harvest half of what is there and that is replaced very quickly. Also algea ponds are a great place for all that phosphate waste we try to keep out of the waterways. We do that becuase they cause algal blooms, exactly what we want in this case. Remember that huge mass of algae the chinese were contending with just before the olympics? The stuff can grow fast in the right conditions. Some strains of algae have the highest oil content per dry weight of any crop. The problem seems to be that information on the relation between wet weight and dry weight is sketchy at best and hotly debated with poor supporting information from both sides at worst. Exactly how much wet weight algae is produced per pond area/volume/unit of time is also still a grey area. Extracting the oil is also considered to be an issue although I believe it can be done easily enough if you think the problems through. I believe I could do it myself with a little experimentation and pre-existing technology. I'm sure others could as well.

Land not suitable for other crops could be used for pond farming or bag farming. Set aside land could be used with permission from the EU which should be forthcoming for bag culture as it does not impact soil fertility. Algae does not have to compete with existing crops for land.

There are cellulose eating micro-organisms, at least three that I am aware of, that produce hydrogen gas as a byproduct of eating cellulose. You can burn it directly as fuel for electricity generation. You can feed it to the land or to animals.

To K I have to say you may think it is all known technical methods but actually it is not. There are various factors that need to be explored and optomised. That does not mean there is a big conspiracy. There are scam artists out there now touting algae farm investment oportunities. It is far from an established art.

Algae is probably the answer to our fuel needs waiting proper development. Actual yield for this country will need to be determined but it is well worth the investigation for the potential benefits are better than any competing technology I know of. It may take time to do it right but it can be done in a realisticly short time frame.

K

I kind of knew that you can't cover farmland with solar cells and that they work better when the sun shines and better in clear aired deserts. Really, I did.

If you use soybeans which have a biodeisel production at about 66% efficient of energy out (US gov numbers) (150 gallons per year at wildly high Serria Club type estimates) minus total energy to produce, and compare that to solar in De Moins (Sp.) Iowa you get a solar equvilent efficieny of about .003% (Doing this from memory form a calc I did a year ago.)

What does all that mean -- well given the solar irradiation of Iowa, averaged over 1 year, you can use 1-2 4'x8' solar planels to get as much energy as an entire acre of soybeans in bio deisel. This is per year with published accepted numbers from places like DOE, FDA, etc.

Oh, algae is so much better, etc, etc. So? Maybe with algae systems you have to use 10 4'x8' solar panels per acre - in Iowa. 320 square feet of panels vs. 43000 square feel of algae. Make it 100 panels - 10% of that acre, who cares?

Wow! Biofuels are soooooo great.

henry,

So? Show me an energy balance for your grass. What percentage of the solar irradiation falling on it does it convert to stored chemical energy minus the energy costs making it?

Just the numbers please. It's not hard.

ant: I was about to reply to your 7:52 message when I saw that you already knew you had mixed up the names.

It happens.

Cellulose devoured by algae seems like our best shot for roughly 2013 onward. The big studies - there is another one today - and bigwig guesses are currently issuing some pretty pessimistic words about it - more like 2020 or 2030 than 2013.

We are going to be in a confused world over the near term. No one knows how much NG and oil is actually in reserves and how much of it will be available to which nations.

No one knows how fast solar PV will cut costs and how the overnight storage problem will be solved.

And we don't know if oil shale or geothermal will contribute within a decade. Oil sands certainly will, I include them with oil reserves.

Will fusion work? When? Will it be the big fusion of massive machines, or small like Bussard and Blacklight are touting.

Can nuclear get past the political barriers. We know it works. The cost estimates span an amazing range with advocates saying very cheap and opponents saying infinitely expensive. Most of the numbers are crap.

So not only are new alternative energies hard to cost but so are old energies.

On the usage side fuel cell cost and batteries remain a crap shoot. We know about what the ICE can do. We know about what we can save on conservation, and home heating and air conditioning and lighting.

Public transit? Well, here in Phoenix millions or billions are being spent. Planners seem unable to estimate any cost within a factor of five. Ridership estimates are never close. Expansion funding comes from perhaps twenty sources any of which may cut their budget next year. Our esteemed politicians and civic advocates are sure this is someone's fault, but not theirs.

Public transit seems to work about the same in many US cities.

To those who think they have it all figured out, well, I envy your genius.

jv,

Lets use a slightly different but equally illuminating measure:

U.S. soybean production has averaged about 1.2 tons of dry beans per acre annually. Given an average bean protein mass fraction of about 0.4, the annual protein productivity of soybean production is about 0.5 tons protein per acre.

Miscanthus (switchgrass) can achieve comparable protein productivity on land used to grow soybeans while producing lignocellulosic biomass at about 7 dry tons per acre annually.

The 74 million acres currently planted in soybeans in the U.S. could, in principle, produce the same amount of feed protein AND produce 520 million tons of lignocellulosic biomass.

Of course native grasses can also be grown on unused land and require less than a third of the energy and resource input of bean crops.

jv

You also have to look at the costs of energy storage and transport.

Tanks and pipelines vs batteries and transmission lines? Hmmmmm.

Energy farms will end up being as diverse as food farms: select the optimum mix of pasture, orchards, grains, legumes, grasses / solar towers, PV panels, corn ethanol, algae diesel, soya diesel etc.