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Siemens Exploring Charging at Up to 300 kW for EVs; 6 Minutes for an EV Recharge

As one of its efforts related to Denmark’s EDISON (Electric vehicles in a Distributed and Integrated market using Sustainable energy and Open Networks) project (earlier post), Siemens is developing rapid charging systems for automotive batteries, initially targeting 400V and 63 amps. The long-term goal is to achieve up to 300 kW of charging capacity—enabling a quick recharge in roughly 6 minutes.

The development engineers are also investigating how the constant switching on and off of the batteries affects the power grid; the harmonics this generates could knock the grid out of sync. Here Siemens Energy is working directly on the Risø research campus of the Technical University of Denmark, a partner in the EDISON consortium.

EDISON, the world’s first and most extensive project of its kind, will bring a pool of vehicles to power outlets and connect them to the fluctuating power of the wind. The associated technology for vehicles and the grid will be developed and prepared for use over the next two years. Practical testing will begin in 2011 on the Danish island of Bornholm in the Baltic Sea.

In addition to Siemens, the EDISON consortium includes the Technical University of Denmark (DTU) and its Risø-DTU research center, as well as Denmark’s Dong Energy and Østkraft power utilities, the Eurisco research and development center, and IBM.



They will need flywheel storage or huge battery packs, perhaps with supercaps for a bit of load shaping.

+ very thick wires.

A 6 minute charge would be a game changer for EVs, you could get by with a much smaller range in that case ~ 100 miles.

The trick would be to make it automatic on a credit card, so you wipe the card, and are given a radio bleeper (like in coffee shops) and wander off for a coffee etc.
When charged, the bleep goes off, you come back, give the bleep back, get your card back and off you go.

The bleep would allow them to extend the charge time if there were grid stability issues. The bleep could count down as you charged up.

You would pay extra for a fast charge, but not as much as for gasoline based fuels.


They used to charge about 40 kWh in around one hour with the Chrysler EPIC minivans using NiMH. They ran a bunch of the vans around LAX to get passengers to car rentals and the record was good. I have to wonder how long the batteries last when you charge them so quickly and what kind of cooling is necessary.


Developing rugged high power chargers is a challenge that many manufacturers such as Siemens, GE, ABB, and many others can meet.

A gradual ON-OFF system incorporated into those high power chargers would reduce the load impact to an acceptable level.


400 volts at 63 amps is 25kW, which will take an hour to provide a 25 kWh charge. These numbers need to increase by 100 to achieve their 6 minute 300 kWh charge. I wonder if this is credible.


@citizen it is 300 KW, not 300 KwH.

If they are talking 6 minutes of constant power, then 300 Kw yeilds 30 KwH. This is enough for about 120 miles of driving.

As Harvey says, you would ramp up to 300 Kw, not just kick it in in one go.

You might also request a 300KW charge from the grid controller, who might notify a power supplier who could say "yes" or "no" or 150Kw (or whatever) and negotiate the charging process with the supply chain.

This seems to be the solution - make this a communications problem rather than a power supply problem.

Thus, you might apply for a 6 minute charge for e10, but get offered a 10 minute charge for e6 (or whatever).

Another way of looking at this is 6 minutes is a cup of coffee, 30 minutes is a quick lunch, 60 minutes is a 3 course lunch.



The current charger is only 25 Kw but the long term goal is 300 Kw.

With a 300 Kw charger, you may charge a 30 Kwh battery in about 6 minutes.


I understand the difference between 300kW and 300kWh. I think we are all smoking something if we think we can push 300kW into any battery in existence.


You can charge at 10C, but the battery life may be shortened. Certainly heat will be created and almost certainly the battery chemistry will be permanently altered. I would say super quick charging would be used only when absolutely necessary.

we are all smoking something if we think we can push 300kW into any battery in existence.
The limitation isn't the chemistry, it's the structure and the length of the diffusion paths.  Current Li-ion charges at about 1/3 C, but the Prieto construction could easily improve that to 12 C.  That's zero to full charge in 5 minutes.

The grid issues are easily dealt with; a few used battery packs used for load-levelling would suffice to modulate surges.


415 V @ 63 A 3 phase = 45 Kw
415 V @ 100 A 3 phase = 71.7 Kw

I have 415/63 in my building right now with the main board on the building able to handle 100A easy.

Nothing new needs to be invented to get 15 - 20 minute charges RIGHT NOW!


There is also the option of having a gas engine or turbine powered charging station or ideally a wind powered one.

A 2MW wind turbine should be pushing out well over 300kW under all but the lightest winds, and a PV array could be used to charge direct from DC avoiding inverter losses.

Distributed generation and EV charging has a strong synergy, as does a nationwide roll out of overnight electric charging, nuclear power and HVDC.

Henry Gibson

Long distance pure electric vehicles are a violation of good economics and good engineering. If you refuse to release CO2 whilst driving use liquid ammonia as a fuel or electrify the motorways and city roads. ..HG..

Stan Peterson

Do any of you have any realistic idea what the wiring would look like for this level of power? Or the danger? You are all daft, if you think that this is something that is routinely and easily handled.

Grid Stability problems? You bet. The ditzy 'renewables' cause all kinds of instability havoc with the Grid now. It makes a 'nameplate rated' windmill rated at 1 Megwatt, actually a complete farce. It's actually able to deliver only 6% of its nameplate rated power over time, in practice, and you want to exacerbate this problem?

The Danes have invested in lots of windmill electric generation and find they can't use it. They have expanded their Grid by a nominal 25% of electric wind power, at very high cost, and have absolutely nothing to show for it, despite a constant electrical demand pattern.

They haven't closed a single conventional power generator, generate just as much conventional power as ever. But now they must buy lots of instantaneous, very expensive, power from Germany and pay the Germans for access to the German Grid to provide stability to their Grid.

Other wise it collapses into oscilating instabilities. Meanwhile they give away to the German Utilities lots of useless to them, generated power that the German Utilities graciously accept for essentially nothing, but are able to handle by their much larger grid.

To use this 400V at 63 amp power to re-charge cars in the rain snow and inclement weather is asking for daily deaths from electrocution. But the Danes are looking for an application for this essentially useless power.

Did you notice that they were talking of hooking up to a windmill? They are trying to find a way to get some benefit from windmill generation not connected, or only nominally connected, to the Grid, or connected to private re-charging grids.

Doing so they could re-charge electric autos with the extremely variable, intermittant, and essentially useless wind power. But don't think of a windmill equipped 'filling station' as something common on every street corner.


"With a 300 Kw charger, you may charge a 30 Kwh battery in about 6 minutes."

If the battery pack voltage is 400V, a 300 kW means 750A charge current!
There is no such battery pack available now accepts such huge current.


You can buy a lead-acid battery which produces 650 "cold-cranking" amps off the shelf.  Firefly Energy's 3D² technology produces such currents from much smaller cells, and radically increases both the cycle and calendar lifetimes in the bargain.  That's just lead-acid; on't even ask about A123Systems and their Li-ion cells.

This stuff is old hat.

truman meadows

It seems to me exchangeable packs are the
short term quick answer. Packs could be charged
during off peak hours, and at lower rates, etc.


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