OK so now we can compare the Volt to the Leaf; http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/11/leaf-20101122.html#more

For the Volt EPA assumes the national kWh price is 11 cents and for the Leaf they assume 12 cents per kWh. Why? It is only a day or two after the Leaf got its lable and EPA changed a key economic assumption by almost 10%. Hmm.

Toyota at 50 mpg now is reduced to the third place in the mpg race with the Volt at 60 mpg and the Leaf at 99 mpg. So Toyotas 10 years US mpg leadership is broken and that is making auto history.

Henrik is right. Compared to the Leaf sticker $.12/kW-hr, the Volt electric cost should be listed as $656, not $601. This would be $367 more during the 100,000 mile battery warranty. Maybe getting honest numbers are still like trying to buy an EV-1.

$.12/kW-hr

And with the EPA shutting down new electrical generation as well as adding VERY high costs to existing generation we can expect the $.12/kW-hr to double in the near future. Sad how the government's idiotic actions will kill the electric car by making it more expensive to drive than gas and/or diesel.

Energy is energy, so account for "well to wheels" and we will all be on a more honest basis.

clett: the car's electric-only range is about 38 miles. The table shows that driving 30 miles uses 10.9 kWh of the battery's 12.9 kWh maximum capacity. 45 miles uses up the full battery capacity and also some gas.

My household now pays $0.12 per kWh for 100% wind power from Green Mountain. It is highly unlikely that the US average price for clean power will ever get anywhere near 2X that, except for inflation.

RS: Yes $0.12/Kwh is the current going price for wind produced electricity. Our current Hydro produced power rate is about half that much. Future wind/solar power price could drop by 25% and more with larger much efficient plants. Lower cost Energy storage remains to be solved. Combining Hydro with Wind and/or Solar has one of the best potential. Hydro water reservoirs are excellent for surplus energy storage, specially where you can use ALL the energy produced by solar/wind and use Hydro as back-up and for peak demands. By nature, hydro plants can be turned on-off or production can be reduced-increased on demand without energy loss.

Hydro people don't like to be tied with Wind/Solar power plants because they can and will become second violin and have to play a back-up or secondary role. However, when your Hydro plants are used as back-up + for peak demands, they could be over-equipped by another 100% (with more water turbines) for added flexibility and to be able to meet higher short duration peak demands.

Harmonizing those 3 different clean power sources is important to maximize wind/solar energy capture/usage without the use of expensive storage devices.

@ Harvey:

Here is a real world Volt driver's log (35M daily commute):

"I have now driven the Volt 817.8 miles using 5.27 gallons of gas. 622.5 of those miles have been all-electric, and the total fuel economy thus far is 155 MPG. One day in these two weeks I had to drive more than 100 miles, which would have made a pure electric car unusable.

Nearly all of those miles have been at vigorous highway speeds, and temperatures at or below 40 degrees with a 72 degree cabin temperature. I have not babied or hyerpmiled the car and almost always are either using the handsfree phone or cranking music."

Lyle Denny, MD New York City

Heat energy is not the same as energy from the wind or water turbines. There is a large loss when fuel is burned to create mechanical or electrical energy.

Whilst a gallon of gasoline(petrol)will provide as much energy as 36.6 kWh sent to a resistor in a boiler, there is no way to use an engine or even a fuel cell to produce 36.6 kWh from a gallon of gasoline, and most automobile engines will not even produce 9 kWh of mechanical work from a gallon of gasoline or diesel. By the use of a heatpump, the electricity could put 100 kWh or more(or less) of heat into a boiler depending on the outside temperature.(see ECOCUTE)

A modified Prius was said to get a mile out of 200 watt hours or less as did the WrightSpeed. The Volt is very wasteful and far too elaborate and expensive. ..HG..

And THAT is the goal Harvey! Along with the economic and security benefits of distributed energy. Not to mention that as residences adopt CCHP systems and move further off-grid - we will see the cataclysm of overhead and buried electrical cables disappear. The maintenance and even aesthetic benefits of this are enormous.

Forcing electrons down long stretches of atomically unaligned metal wire is an unkempt way of transmitting energy.

The new era of energy independence will mirror the freedom from "ice delivery" when refrigerators replaced ice boxes. While the iceman was slowly retired - new manufacturers and service entities built and maintained increasingly efficient home appliances.

The grid utilities can then focus on efficient transmission of renewable electricity to large customers and - if they have vision - earn a healthy market share from distribution.

Home energy systems are the new category of appliance established and startup manufacturers can look forward to profiting from.

If governments make profits, the people pay lower taxes.

Excellent points Harvey. Worthy of discussion re local vs. distant economies. Most green movements embrace the concept "Think global, act local." Applying this to energy we come to know distant energy is expensive energy.

Capturing and transmitting Hudson Bay wind energy to central Provinces MAY appear economical in the near term. But cost of building, installing and maintaining wind turbines along with the wildly variable energy production - is long term expensive.

As we come to understand ubiquitous energy in our universe we will discover new ways of unlocking energy all around us. Locally produced goods, including energy, support local economies with jobs, cash circulation, and even TAXES.

Replacing big, centralized entities with small, local modules is an evolutionary principle. We see it in swarm technology, parallel processes, distributed energy, etc. Ice boxes worked well until refrigeration obviated ice import and delivery.

The same will happen with energy.