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Report: GS Yuasa developing high-capacity Li-sulfur battery, commercialization by 2020

The Japan Times reported that Japan-based battery maker GS Yuasa Corp. said it has developed a next-generation lithium-sulfur battery with three times the capacity of existing products.

The battery reportedly uses sulfur as a key material in the cathode and a silicon-based anode. The company said it now aims to improve the durability of the anode , so it can commercialize the next-generation lithium-ion battery by 2020.

To formulate the cathode material, GS Yuasa fills sulfur into small holes on carbon rods, the company said.


Juan Carlos Zuleta Calderón

I have the feeling that this type of Li batteries (and perhaps other, even more advanced, ones) will be ready for prime time by 2017, that is by the time the first Li batteries produced by Tesla's giga-factory are commercialized.

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Of cause no actual numbers yet here. wh/L or wh/kg. However, the news come from a respected company with experience in mass production of advanced lithium batteries. This is not an untested startup or pure research company. It is the first time I have seen an announcement about using sulfur cathodes and silicon anodes in combination in a lithium battery. This is interesting. The next generation Tesla battery will likely also use a silicon anode using the Panasonic 4Ah 18650 cell.


It baffles me why anyone should think that Tesla will be anywhere near producing the Model III which is what the gigafactory is supposed to be for, or that they will sell that car whenever it arrives at anything like the projected $35k cost.

Such an opinion is certainly not based on Tesla's track record.

They are running two years late for the Model X, and tell us that they are having problems organising the production.

If that is tough, how much tougher is it to build a car a totally different scale to anything they have ever attempted, for half the cost?

Margins are tight at that price point, and Tesla simply do not have the economies of scale VW do to run cars down their Golf production line and stick in one of LG Chem's 200 mile batteries, which they tell us they can make by 2016.

What possible grounds based on experience is there for thinking that Tesla are going to produce a $35k car in 2017, which is what the gigafactory is supposed to be for?

The Model X was supposed to be in production by the end of this year, and the latest push back puts it in Q3.

They have a four year contract with Panasonic for 2 billion batteries, and with the Model X further delayed they will be running way behind in taking the batteries they have contracted to take made by Panasonic in Japan, never mind the gigafactory.

Tesla may very well run a year or more behind schedule, and price a typical sale configuration 10k more than the target price. But they'll still lead the entire field and have one of the most sought after cars on the market.


If I am proven wrong I will happily admit it, but I regard a company which is dropping ~$10k on every $100k car it produces, even after large ZEV credits and tax rebates for their customers notion that they are going to take apart the major manufacturers with access to the LG battery packs in the $35k market as pure fantasy.

Tesla engineering may be good, but it ain't nearly as fantastic as their sales projections and accounting.

We will see.
I expect a pretty dire 4th quarter this year.


Yuasa is the company who made the 787 batteries that caught fire, let's hope they do a better job going forward.

BTW, for those interested in the topic, there is a documentary on Al Jazeera called "Broken Dreams" about the quality problems on the 787. If any of you like Frontline, you will like this.


It might also improve my cellphone because im deceive at how the battery charge is short duration.


Davemart, after a little googling it appears Tesla has no problem selling every car it makes. I'm sure why you're so down on them.


Sorry, I should have said:
I'm NOT sure why you're down them.

Tesla's market price seems pretty good.

Don't know where you see Tesla losing money from their car sales either. Margins are around 28% according to the 3rd quarter report.


Have a look at the third quarter accounts, which right at the bottom under non-GAAP stuff where you can pretty much adjust figures any way you want, come the GAAP figures, ie according to Generally Accepted Accounting Practices, and are the stuff which auditors look at after tossing the rest in the bin, and which is the stuff that people go to prison for if they misrepresent.

It shows a big, fat loss there of $74,708,000.
Divide that by the number of cars delivered, and you come to a loss of around $9,600 for every car worldwide.

And that is after they got around $66 million of ZEV credits.

I've never known a business go into receivership that did not have cheery management accounts and a great order book.

Unless the losses can be stuck to the shareholders one way or another that does not keep it solvent if the financial accounts are hideous.

Ignore the talk about gross profit margins, which can be just about anything management wants it to be.

The bottom line is that they are losing huge amounts of money.

If investors want to think that is fine for such a promising business, that is OK by me.

It still doesn't mean that they are not losing money.


BTW, it is not particular to Tesla.
I would not like any company with accounts like those, a hugely inflated share price which assumes total success in all objectives, and whose continuance in business is not predicated on what they actually are doing at the moment, but the notion that they will take over just about everything.

Check out the Feb 20th 2014 share letter.
They projected Asian and Chinese demand to be twice that in North America.

That has been downgraded in just the few months since then to North American sales to be more than half of total demand, and not because of increased demand in the US but because the other regions are under half that they projected.

That is not even professional forecasting, and this is supposed to be the company on course to win at everything, if the share price is to be believed.

Tesla at the moment is as nuts as Florida real estate prior to 2008.

If you're so certain of their failure, DaveMart, go ahead and short them with every shilling you've got. Or maybe you already have.


GAAP will show a loss for any company investing a lot in capital expenses, such as building factories. It is meaningless with regards to whether they sell their cars at a profit. This was the same goofy type of fake that the FOX creeps were saying about the GM Volt. There is the cost of materials and labor and then there is the selling price and if it is above the cost of materials and labor the car turns a profit even while the company may not. A loss should not be feared when the purpose is to increase future revenues by installing further manufacturing. GAAP is used for FEC reports but is not an indication of future profitability it's intent is to make it clear what all cost and revenues are at the moment. Certain costs assume future market and are recovered over time on a percentage basis. GAAP do not account for this. In other words, if I buy a tool that will last for 20 years and I use it in my business, it's cost is not accounted for in just the year it was purchased, but is paid out as a percentage over time.


By the way, Sulfur/silicon will be the battery of the future, regardless of whether GS Yuasa has really solved the issues at this time or not.


Posters should not be so eager to blame the batteries for the Boeing 787 bad electrical wiring and inappropriate current limiters incidents.

Yuasa may have been the easy scape goat to cover other (wiring or design) problems? Those very same batteries have been operating with success for months.

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