Well, they have a heck of a lot of bulk to engineer out to make it practical as a passenger vehicle, but for buses or delivery vehicles they should be fine with much more modest further development.

Yes, like they've always needed ways to convert food into vehicle fuel.  </sarcasm>

What would really improve matters is an SOFC which uses pyrolysis oil.  It can be made from woody biomass and requires no complex processing.

Hi EP.

I think you are looking at it in the wrong light.

US gasoline contains around 10% ethanol.

Used in an SOFC it would be around twice as efficient with no more used than at present.

But this is a PHEV, not a pure FCEV, so it would only kick in for longer runs.

If around 5kw is all that is practical for a while, you are going to need a pretty meaty battery of the order of this 24 kwh pack to make it make sense or the pack would deplete before the RE could help much.

With only runs of over ~80 miles using any ethanol, you are in the right ball park to power all the US light vehicle fleet without using any more ethanol at all than at present.

As mahonj says, there are other sources than plants for ethanol anyway.

Finally, Nissan tell us that they could run this on many fuels:

'The breakthrough model, an all-new light–commercial vehicle, can rely on multiple fuels, including ethanol and natural gas, to produce high-efficiency electricity as a power source.'

https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/nissan-unveils-worlds-first-solid-oxide-fuel-cell-vehicle-in-brazil/

But NG would be fossil fuels, which ain't good, right?

Well, with the NG used at ~50% efficiency, that is better than the grid average of around 40% for NG to electricity, so the bottom line is that this would be around as efficient as using NG powered electricity from the grid, or somewhat better, to power your car.

I think you are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Excellent points, Davemart.

Puerto Rico and Hawaii have large mothballed sugarcane industries. The US south also has a large sugarcane capability. All could use an agriculture employment boost.

This PHEV may become a game changer in the very near future if it can be mass produced at an interesting price.

A more powerful FC would extend the total range and the possibility to recharge and/or keep the batteries charged 'on the run' ?

Ethanol and/or other suitable biofuels can be produced in large quantities with non food feed stocks.

It does not work in real life. SOFCs are heavy and bulky and that is why they can only fit 5kw in it. That is not enough. You can hardly drive 1 hour on the highway before the 24kwh battery is depleted and then you need to wait 5 hours to charge it again every hour or 70 miles.

SOFCs are also really expensive and they take time to heat up before the make electricity. It is not like flipping a switch. But they are highly durable.

Electrek took note that Musk believe his Giga factory will hit less than 100 USD per kwh at the cell level by 2020. Now add 30 USD per kwh for packing, cooling and power electronics and we get 130 USD at the pack level by 2020 including a standard 25% gross profit margin. The model 3 will get a 55 kwh pack to do min 215 miles range enough for most because of home charging and supercharging. So battery cost is only 55*130 = 7150 USD. A 5kw SOFC cost more and it is only 1/5 of the needed power to keep a car like that going on the highway.

http://electrek.co/2016/07/28/tesla-gigafactory-tour-roundup-and-tidbits-this-is-the-coolest-factory-ever/

And in this model which is heavy on the battery you would fast charge it as normal for a BEV when you stopped.

It is just that you could do go a lot longer before stopping.

But mainly, this is a prototype to try out the system, not a finished spec production model.

EP:

This is Nissan's answer to the 1,000 or so Renault Kangoo delivery vehicles which are on the road using 5-10kw hydrogen RE's, and doing a grand job AFAIK.

Its obvious that the weight and bulk of this is no good for passenger cars, and equally obvious that Nissan would not bother developing it if this were anywhere remotely near the technical limits of the system.

As for the supply of ethanol,there is plenty of it ATM, and plenty cheap.

Not every possible objection has to be completely solved to make a pathway worth going down.

Bio ethanol will soon be produced in large quantities at competitive price. Beta Renewables plants is in production. A similar large plant will be in production in Florida in a few months. Singapore will soon have a similar plant.

By 2020/2025 or so, the world may have (XX) bio ethanol plants in operation and the price could be competitive with corn and sugar cane ethanol.

This appears on the surface to be a much more viable idea than compressed H2. Well done Nissan!

'I saw no mention of weight or bulk in this item, care to link/quote?'

??? Have a look at the diagrams above, and the video, which shows them installing the unit.

No, I don't have the exact figures, nor would I expect to in a prototype unit, but this is clearly both bulky and likely heavy.

Based on previous post it seems the fuel cell is supplied by ceres power. Ceres power produces a "Steel Cell" which they claim operates at a low temperature and low production cost? Guesstimate based on pictures and general info is that 5KW might occupy 30-50 litres of space. You think they could have squeezed in 20 kw so you could drive continuously?

When enough people switch to alternative fuel vehicles the tax system will need to change. Registration fees will likely be based on km. In the meantime Tesla, leaf and Chevy Volt owners are getting a free ride. Tax in Alberta is about 25 cents per litre which amounts to 3.5 cents per km if your F150 gets 14 L /100 km. The drivers will complain endlessly about the tax but never consider switching to a Camry.

It must be cheaper to burn corn to produce electricity or digest it and produce methane than to ferment it to produce ethanol.

My idea to save the starving children in Africa would be to force just about every land use not dedicated to growing staple foods to convert to corn and grain. That would include golf courses, front and back lawns, horse farms, cotton farms, flower farms and tobacco farms. Then US could dump all their surplus food into the developing world, although I've heard this practice has the affect of stifling local production.

CheeseEater:

The exhausts should be fine, as nearly all the problems are caused by high temperature combustion producing nasties, and this is lower temperature and not combustion anyway..