BYD unveils two electric trucks
04 September 2021
BYD unveiled two battery-electric heavy-duty trucks, the Gen3 8TT and 6F. Unveiled at the ACT Expo in Long Beach, Calif., the Gen 3 8TT and 6F feature cabs styled by Wolfgang Josef Egger, the former Audi chief designer.
The stylish cabs offer improved aerodynamics and energy efficiency. The truck come standard with Advanced Driver-Assistance Systems (ADAS), making driving easier and safer.
The trucks are equipped with an Electronic Parking Brake system, offer keyless entry and push to start functions, and have up to 185kW CCS1 charging capability. The extended range (ER) version of the 8TT and 6F offer a range of up to 200 miles on a charge.
Gen 3 8TT Tandem Axle is a versatile vehicle, capable of performing drayage, regional haul, and distribution work. With a GVWR of 105,000 lbs, the truck delivers 360 kW (483 hp) with 2,400 N·m (1,770 lb-ft) of torque. Battery capacity is 422 kWh (ER 563 kWh).
The 6F can perform regional haul and distribution work. It can also be equipped with a body for refuse collection. With a GVWR of 26,000 lbs, the truck produces 250 kW (335 hp) and 1,800 N·m (1,328 lb-ft) of torque. Battery capacity is 281 kWh (ER 343 kWh).
Both trucks use BYD’s lithium iron phosphate batteries.
BYD leads in battery-electric truck deployments with more than 8,000 trucks in service around the world and more than 200 in service across the United States.
' have up to 185kW CCS1 charging capability'
Which shows the real present capabilities of battery electric haulage.
That rate is fine for back to depot vehicles and routes, and of course no good at all for commercial long distance.
As Daimler and the other trucking building firms outside of the VAG group, where Man is on its last legs anyway, argue, to get decent loads over long distance with a ZEV hydrogen is needed.
Posted by: Davemart | 04 September 2021 at 01:43 AM
@Daremart
BYD's trucks are intended for delivery and shorter haul drayage and distribution as is stated in the article above. They are not intended or suited for long-haul trucking. Most of the trucks in the US are used for delivery and shorter haul drayage and distribution and travel less than 100 miles. Daimler Trucks North America also sells battery electric trucks as Freightliner for the same marker with a Detroit ePowertrain . Detroit is also owned by Daimler and appears to have dropped Diesel from their name. See https://freightliner.com. Volvo and International Trucks are also in this market with battery electric trucks.
Will we have battery electric long-haul trucking? Probably not for a while. I looked up Tesla but they did not have any new announcements and are always behind on their promises anyway. Will Nikola finally show up with a fuel cell truck that is real and does something other than roll down a ramp. They claim 2023 now but I would not hold my breath. The founder of the Nikola, Trevor Milton, has been charged with fraud so I do not know if they will recover. Will Hino take over long-haul trucking with their fuel cell semi-tractors. Probably not but I will note that they are also working on battery electric trucks for the delivery and short-haul market.
Anyway, I was making engineering and marketing decisions for a truck manufacturer, I would go after the low hanging fruit which is the delivery and short haul market. I would be doing longer term research on zero emission long haul but concentrate my resources on the possible.
Posted by: sd | 04 September 2021 at 09:36 AM
@sd:
Agree! Looks as if BEVs are the chosen for short routes.
It will be interesting who wins the long haul race. Will it be less costly to use H2 FCs or BEVs for long haul routes? I'm betting on BEVs as battery technology is progressing rapidly.
H2 still makes sense for aircraft and ships to displace fossil fuel; but, only if someone pushes H2 technology off the dime to do so. There doesn't seem to be much action yet..
Posted by: Lad | 04 September 2021 at 10:15 AM
@Lad:
As noted already, almost the entire trucking industry disagrees with you, and are putting substantial sums into developing the fuel cell trucks and the infrastructure to support them.
Do you imagine that they are doing that arbitrarily, if they could more simply use batteries to do the job?
Long haul heavy trucking relies on fantasy batteries, not engineering reality.
Posted by: Davemart | 04 September 2021 at 10:39 AM
Hydrogen is being set up and investments made throughout the production chain.
Here is a 25,000 pa commitment by Chart Industries to produce liquid hydrogen fuel tanks for onboard storage:
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/chart-industries-introduces-on-board-liquid-hydrogen-system/
Posted by: Davemart | 04 September 2021 at 11:17 AM
@Daremart
I looked at your reference but I find it quite unlikely that commercial trucks will use liquid hydrogen. Using hydrogen is enough of a problem but transporting and using a liquid that is only 20 degrees C above absolute zero really compounds the problems. It gets used some for rocket fuel especially for upper stages and maybe it will be used for military aircraft.
Interesting that the following article makes it seem that Nikola is actually producing trucks which is complete BS. Part of the "fake until you make it" culture assuming that you ever make it. Nikola's website alludes to selling battery electric trucks in 2021 and fuel cell trucks in 2023 but I will believe it when I see it.
Posted by: sd | 04 September 2021 at 07:34 PM
@sd
The use of liquid hydrogen surprised me too.
But that is what Daimler, Volvo and others are going for.
Apparently their calculations show that the compactness and weight of liquid hydrogen in the application outweigh the energy losses etc of using it in preference to compressed hydrogen.
The development chain as I indicated is quite far advanced now, so it seems that that is going to be the main choice for heavy trucking.
Posted by: Davemart | 05 September 2021 at 01:58 AM
UPS, a founding member of Clean Cities' National Clean Fleets Partnership, announced plans to invest approximately $50 million to build an additional nine liquefied natural gas (LNG) fueling stations
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/ups-expand-use-liquefied-natural-gas
Posted by: SJC | 05 September 2021 at 03:50 AM
Cheap NG in the US make it a near time choice there, and a good one in my view.
Truck companies there are also committed to hydrogen though for the longer term.
With over 60% of heavy trucks operating in China, that is overwhelmingly the biggest market, and they are committed in their 5 year plan to rolling out hydrogen.
Posted by: Davemart | 05 September 2021 at 04:28 AM
I am not sure whether we will have long-haul hydrogen fuel cell trucks or if we will have batteries that are faster charging with sufficient range and life to make it more economic to run battery electric. If I had to bet, I would probably bet on batteries but it may depend on the time scale. Meanwhile, we can manufacture battery electric trucks for delivery and short-haul applications.
One thing that is instructive to look at though is a paper that gryf provided a link to: file:///C:/Users/samue/AppData/Local/Temp/paper3996_1.pdf
There paper has an explanation of using steam reforming of municipal waste to produce hydrogen. On the first page, there is a chart with about12 different companies having fuel cell vehicles that must date from about 2010. All but Toyota and Hundai given up on hydrogen fuel cells.
Anyway, there is a place for hydrogen and converting municipal waste to hydrogen would be a good thing.
Posted by: sd | 05 September 2021 at 11:58 AM
@sd:
' All but Toyota and Hundai given up on hydrogen fuel cells.'
?? BMW is to make a fuel cell vehicle, and so are a number of Chinese companies, whilst Stellantis is joining Renault in putting Symbio fuel cell REs in its commercial vehicles.
Hyzon is already deploying hundreds of heavy fuel cell vehicles.
Hyundai have fuel cell trucks on the road right now in Switzerland.
The system there is that there is a flat rate tax on emission producing goods vehicles.
The fuel cell alternative was chosen by the buyers themselves, not mandated by Government.
Fair criticism is one thing, but it is pretty obvious that you are skimping on establishing the facts on technologies you don't fancy, which is not a very good place to start.
Posted by: Davemart | 05 September 2021 at 01:12 PM
' This year, GWM will launch a fuel-cell SUV and take the lead in implementing the application project of 100 49-ton hydrogen energy heavy trucks in the world, said Zhang Tianyu, Chairman of GWM FTXT. '
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/04/20210406-gwm.html
Posted by: Davemart | 05 September 2021 at 02:20 PM
FC's for on-road mobility are the most ludicrous BS fairy tales ever taunted and supported from the fossil fuel industry.
Posted by: yoatmon | 06 September 2021 at 04:27 AM
@Davemart
The chart that I referenced was for light fuel cell vehicles sold or projected to be sold in the US and more specifically California. I thing that my statement that except for Toyota and Hundai, they have all dropped out of the market is true and fair. BMW has built a fuel cell prototype that might be sold in Europe if the price and availability of hydrogen make it practical. Stellantis is going to make a fuel cell version of it's larger battery electric commercial van available in Europe but we will have to see if it finds much of a market.
Motor Trend had an interesting test of the Toyota Mirai. They had to pay $1670/kg for hydrogen which makes the cost of fuel about $0.27/mi. Maybe the fuel will drop to a projected $6-7/kg by 2025 but probably not that low. Meanwhile, my Bolt costs less than $0.03/mi to drive based on $0.11/kWhr and an average of 4.2 mi/kWhr over 42,500 miles driven and there are places that I can park and charge for free.
The cost of hydrogen is going to be the major ongoing problem for fuel cell vehicles. Maybe, they will be used for long-haul trucking but I would bet on battery electric simply based on economics.
Posted by: sd | 06 September 2021 at 08:56 AM
For anyone interested how the future may have developed in a further decade:
https://hb11.energy/how-it-works/
Posted by: yoatmon | 06 September 2021 at 09:06 AM
Hi sd
The chart was somewhere inside a link which you described as being about steam reforming of municipal waste to produce hydrogen, not particularly a subject I am interested in, so I had no idea you were referring to the US alone.
For fuel cell vehicles the far more extensive filling station set ups in Germany and South Korea etc and their fairly rapid expansion make it seem likely that the US is not the best point of reference,
However, for California:
' "The key findings are that the dispensed price of hydrogen is likely to meet an interim target based on fuel economy-adjusted price parity with gasoline of $6.00 to $8.50 per kilogram by 2025," the report said.
That figure does not include the impact of California Low Carbon Fuel Standard credits, which would lower the cost of hydrogen to consumers even further, the report said.'
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128428_report-hydrogen-fuel-cell-price-parity-with-gasoline-2025
Much of the high price of hydrogen at the pump in California is due to low volume.
Rolling out hydrogen for trucks as just about every trucking company plans would greatly reduce that before technical progress etc is accounted for.
Toyota are making a Prius PHEV FCEV in 2023.
So what would be the per mile cost of that in 2025?
It will certainly be able to travel long distances without lugging around hundreds of kilos of batteries.
Posted by: Davemart | 06 September 2021 at 09:42 AM
The notion that hydrogen does not occur at all naturally and is an energy store not a fuel, by the somewhat weird definitions of those determined at all costs to denigrate it., is demonstrably false.
https://www.renewablematter.eu/articles/article/natural-hydrogen-a-geological-curiosity-or-the-primary-energy-source-for-a-low-carbon-future
We have no idea whether it occurs in locations and quantities sufficient to be commercially interesting, but then again that was true of many resources until interest was piqued in them.
For early stage investigation:
' they are uplifted by deeper phenomena (a hot spot) as in Iceland. In fact, in this island, the fumaroles of the neo volcanic zone of the central axis of the rift all contain H2 (Stefansson, 2017). For the moment only the thermal energy content of the hot water, the heat-transfer fluid that brings energy to the surface, are used in the geothermal power plants, but it could be otherwise as those geothermal fluids contain large fractions of hydrogen. Generally speaking, production of H2 by surface separation in addition to extraction of geothermal energy would be possible in many areas such as Tosacani. This path seems to be worth exploring because the difficulties encountered in trying to make many high temperature geothermal projects economical mean that a second revenue stream from hydrogen sales would be appealing.'
This might be a footnote to energy production, but equally could be of huge importance.
We just don't know.
Posted by: Davemart | 06 September 2021 at 02:01 PM
Honda GM and Mercedes all have fuel cells
Posted by: SJC | 06 September 2021 at 02:39 PM
@Davemart
"Toyota are making a Prius PHEV FCEV in 2023.
So what would be the per mile cost of that in 2025?"
If the price of hydrogen comes down to about $7.00/kg (which is a big if), I would expect that it would cost about $0.10 per mile on hydrogen. If you could just drive on the battery, it would probably cost about $0.03/mile. However the 2022 Prius Prime will only run about 25 miles on the battery. Meanwhile the Chevy Bolt is only about $2000 more in initial cost than the Prius Prime and has a range of 259 miles (I almost always get better than the EPA rating even though I drive relatively hard and regularly drive 80 mph on the freeways).
@yoatmon
HB11 is interesting, particularly if you can generate electricity without heat exchangers, turbines, etc. I hope it is real and I would definitely recommend that the research efforts continue. However, I have memories of the cold fusion fiasco so I really hope the HB11 reactions are real and repeatable. I was a mechanical engineering faculty member at the University of Utah In 1989, when two electrochemists at the University of Utah, Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons, claimed that they had discovered a fusion reaction at room temperature while running electrolysis experiments of heavy water using a palladium electrode. Apparently they had just made some bad heat measurements but it took quite a while before the dust settled
Assuming the HB11 is real and can be scaled, it is still a long hard slog to get to where you can connect something to the grid but it does look promising.
@SJC
It is one thing to have fuel cells and another thing to have fuel cell vehicles on the market.
Anyway, Honda is going to use GM fuel cells but I am not sure what they are going to do with them. Honda is also going to use GM's batteries for battery electric vehicles. GM has not announced any light duty vehicles with fuel cells. Apparently they are going to supply Wabtec (Used to be GE Locomotives) with fuel cells and batteries for locomotives. Wabtec currently has a battery powered locomotive in field tests with 6MWhr worth of GM Ultium batteries. However, that is probably only enough battery for 2 hours at full power. GM is also going to supply fuel cells toLiebherr-Aerospace for development of a hydrogen fuel cell power generation demonstrator system for aircraft.
Mercedes has some fuel cell cars in Germany that are under going customer testing but that is not the same as having them on the market. (GM did this about 15 years ago in the US but then dropped fuel cells in favor of battery electric vehicles).
Posted by: sd | 06 September 2021 at 08:23 PM
@ sd:
I remember the cold fusion incident quite well. From the very beginning, for me it was a "cold fish from fantasy island".
I'm a retired electric and electronics engineer and spent most of my working life on the payroll of SIEMENS. I've followed the "progress of the Tokomak and Stellerator designs since the experimental phases of both types began.
In my opinion, The ITER in France (Tokamak) is a billion $ grave. It has - nevertheless - benefited scientific research with some revelations. It will never amount to a commercial product because of its inherent architectural geometrical defaults.
The Stellerator design is an extremely complex machine but in my estimation will soon be crowned with success. The Stellerator is an experimental model only and will never be connected to the grid. However, in comparison to the HB11 reactor it will never be an earnest competitor. The HB11 is small and a featherweight in comparison and has the advantage of gaining electric power straight from the fusion process. I'm convinced that the HB11 will ultimately win the race.
It's relatively small size and low weight predestines it for powering e-locomotives, airplanes etc. and of course the grid. And just think of what a boon this would be for powering spaceships.
Posted by: yoatmon | 07 September 2021 at 03:56 AM
The Stellerator is an experimental model only and will never be connected to the grid. What I meant with this statement is in reference to the international Stellerator (W7x) being operated in Greifswald, Germany.
Posted by: yoatmon | 07 September 2021 at 04:08 AM
@sd,
Well, the discussion perhaps should be continued on the new thread where the Hyundai roadmap for hydrogen is:
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/09/20210907-hyundaih2.html
There are powerful and reputable companies with confidence in hydrogen and fuel cells playing a major part.
I would also be interested in your comments on the Joby Aviation thread :
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/09/20210905-joby.html
Posted by: Davemart | 07 September 2021 at 07:43 AM
General Motors will supply its Hydrotec fuel cell power cubes to Navistar for use in its production model fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV) Jun 21, 2021
Posted by: SJC | 07 September 2021 at 08:20 AM